Powerful Women Rising - A Business Podcast for Female Entrepreneurs

Perfectly Imperfect - Breaking Free of Expectations in Life and Business w/Ashley Jordan

• Melissa Snow - Powerful Women Rising, LLC • Episode 105

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 Are you living for yourself or for the expectations of others? 

In this episode, I sit down with Ashley Jordan, author of Unhappy Achiever: Rejecting the Good Girl Image & Reclaiming the Joy of Inner Fulfillment, to discuss the power of shedding societal expectations and embracing authenticity in life and business. 

Ashley shares her transformative journey of self-discovery, offering insights and actionable steps for breaking free from people-pleasing, perfectionism and the patriarchy so you can reconnect with what truly matters.

We discuss:

  • The impact of societal, familial, and cultural expectations on women’s lives and businesses.
  • How perfectionism creates barriers to joy, self-worth, and genuine relationships.
  • Why breaking the rules and releasing the “good girl” image is a game-changer for female entrepreneurs.

This conversation serves as a powerful reminder for women to stand firm and expect to be acknowledged on YOUR terms, challenging traditional paradigms that no longer serve you.  If you’re ready to release the weight of external expectations (as well as your own!) and live the life you were meant to live, this episode will inspire and empower you to embrace your perfectly imperfect self!

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Melissa Snow is a Business Relationship Strategist dedicated to empowering women in entrepreneurship. She founded the Powerful Women Rising Community, which provides female business owners with essential support and resources for business growth.

Melissa's other mission is to revolutionize networking, promoting authenticity and genuine connections over sleazy sales tactics. She runs an incredible monthly Virtual Speed Networking Event which you can attend once at no cost using the code FIRSTTIME

She lives in Colorado Springs with two girl dogs, two boy cats and any number of foster kittens. She loves iced coffee, Taylor Swift, and Threads.

Speaker 1:

Hello Ashley, Welcome to the Power for Women Rising podcast.

Speaker 2:

Hi Melissa. Thank you for having me. Happy to be here.

Speaker 1:

Yes, excited to talk to you today. Before we dive into today's topic, why don't you tell everybody a little bit about you and your background and what you do now?

Speaker 2:

Sure Well, I am an author and a speaker. I recently published the book Unhappy Achiever Rejecting the Good Girl Image and Reclaiming the Joy of Inner Fulfillment. But I really consider myself a storyteller, so communication is a medium that I use to help illuminate the paths of other women. I share my stories in hopes that from those stories there'll be an invitation for other women to share those their own stories and to find resonance for themselves in those stories and hopefully some learning and some lessons that they can take with them and carry forward in walking their own most powerful paths.

Speaker 1:

That's amazing. I love what you said because one of the things that I have found in my own business in the last couple of years especially as I have allowed myself to show up more authentically, share more of my real self, more of that self that, like as a little girl, felt like you're weird, what is wrong with you that I realized the more that I do that, the more it gives other women permission to do the same thing, and so I love what you do too in that sense.

Speaker 2:

Yes, well, that is exactly it, right. When we are brave and bold enough to be our authentic selves in the world especially when it doesn't fit the box of the good girl, it doesn't please in the way that we're conditioned to we pave the path for other women to do the same, and so that is what it's all about. For me, right, it's sharing my own stories, my own lessons, my own life, in hopes that it inspires other women to live their biggest, boldest, most authentic lives, and not just professionally, right as entrepreneurs, but personally as well.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so how did you get to this point? I mean, I know it's probably a very long story, but I imagine you didn't just like come to age 14 and be like I'm just going to be unhappy what was the word that you use? Not unhappy, happily, against the expectations, and I'm not going to, I'm not going to conform to this good girl thing and I'm just going to be me Like how'd you get there?

Speaker 2:

So I'll tell you. I was 37 years old and I always want to say that. You know, I wish I could tell you a story of 37. I realized that I didn't know myself at all and that I really needed to go on this internal exploration and figure out who I was. And that's not what happened at all.

Speaker 2:

Unexpectedly stumbled into this life-changing now four and a half year journey that I've been on, in which every major aspect of my life, with the exception of my three beautiful children, has changed in four and a half years, from my career to my friendships, to my marriage. Nothing about my life looks the way that it did four and a half years ago, and that's because, without even knowing it, I had built a life based on external expectations, approval, perfectionism, being a very good girl, and at some point along the way, I completely lost touch with me, with who I actually was. And so I realized at 37, when, you know, an unexpected trigger sent me spiraling into 24 years of repressed traumatic grief from childhood that I had no idea who I was, that the version of me I had been living as was a mask, was a construction based on everything I articulated right, all of the things I was taught I should be instead of who I actually was, and that always starts in childhood, right. As soon as someone tells us that who we are isn't good enough, it isn't right, it's not pleasing, we without even maybe consciously realizing it, construct a new version of ourselves to act on our behalf, right. And so in the book, I call her, like my alter ego, amber instead of Ashley.

Speaker 2:

Amber was pleasing, amber did what everyone wanted. Amber achieved lots of big things, right. But somewhere along the way I just became Amber and I didn't know Ashley anymore. And so this journey has been about, and this book really is about. What does it look like when you have built an entire life from the outside in, right, based on the external, and now you rediscover yourself, right? You unbury your authenticity from somewhere inside of your being, and now you have to deconstruct that life that you built from the outside in to rebuild one that aligns with who you are and lights you up from the inside out. And so that is what brings me here today to be having this conversation with you.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's beautiful. I feel like there's so many different ways that we could go about this conversation, because this is a very complex topic, right Like when we're talking about where did these expectations come from? They came from our family, they come from society, they came from the patriarchy, they come from all of these like big celebrity business coaches that say, like this is what you should look like and this is how you should run your business and this is what you should do, and there's a lot. There's a lot of expectations on us as women, there's a lot of expectations on us as entrepreneurs, and then there's a lot of expectations on us as female entrepreneurs, absolutely. So let's talk a little bit about just kind of, basically, where do you think that these expectations come from?

Speaker 2:

Well, I think that they start in childhood and I think that a lot of our caregivers and I'll say, you know, not just male caregivers but also female caregivers impose those expectations upon us, and not intentionally, necessarily or consciously, but unconsciously, because they're simply imposing the same rules, expectations and standards that were imposed upon them right. And so when I look at my own mother and I'll say, you know, I love my mother unconditionally. She's a wonderful woman, a wonderful wife, and, just like me, as a mother, she did the very best that she could and she was teaching me what she had been taught right by her own mother and what I'm sure my grandmother was taught by my great grandmother right the code of conduct for being a girl and for being a woman. And it's about being very good, it's about pleasing, it's about being perfect, it's about self-sacrifice, sacrificing yourself for everyone else's comfort right and even martyring yourself for others right.

Speaker 2:

We're taught that that's what good women do. And so, by those standards, authenticity becomes absolutely impossible. You know, one thing I was taught as a young girl was that I was responsible for other people's feelings. So if somebody was upset with me, that was my fault and I needed to fix it Right, Regardless of what I had done, if somebody was upset and I was the subject, then that was my fault, that was my problem.

Speaker 1:

And half the time, even if it wasn't you, even if you weren't the subject, it was still on you to fix it.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, absolutely, to figure out what you did wrong and to fix it. And when you're living with an expectation, like even that one example, authenticity is impossible because you're so worried about keeping everybody else happy and comfortable and safe, right, it's impossible to be your real, authentic self. Because here's the secret If you're your real, authentic self, everybody's not going to be pleased all the time. Right, it is the saying. When you stop pleasing, people aren't pleased and that's true, right. And so just getting used to being authentic, even when it means somebody may not like a decision you made, something that you said right. Your behavior is a huge unlearning for us and usually that programming starts early on in our childhood. It certainly did for me.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and it makes sense from a like biological level too, right, because our half of our brains, at least, are still stuck in our caveman days where, if you weren't accepted, if you were ostracized, if they did decide, no, this one's sick, this one's weak, this one's's whatever, like you did get left behind, you did get kicked out and it was a matter of life or death. And so I think there's still a part of our brain that, like when we're rejected, or we perceive that we're rejected or we perceive that we're not who our people want us to be that part of our brain is still like oh my gosh, this is life or death. Like you better figure this out or you're going to be left to the. What were the saber tooth tigers? That's what I was thinking of. I was going to say bobcat, I knew that wasn't right.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely we are. We are communal creatures, right, and our survival depended on community. And I'll say, even now, as children, our survival depends on our caregivers, right. So, even now, when we're kids, we don't really have a choice. Right, we have to align our behavior with the expectations and beliefs that are imposed upon us early on for our own safety and survival. So I think, even even now, that holds true.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I agree. So when it comes to female entrepreneurs, what do you see? I mean, I know you work with all types of women and all types of women. Read your book. It's not just for entrepreneurs. I think it's relevant to any woman who's ever existed in the world, really. But do you see certain unrealistic expectations show up more often than others in women or in female entrepreneurs?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely so. You know, I was a stay at home mother of three for many years and I can tell you that even you know, whatever your life looks like as a woman, whatever your role is, the standards are very, very high, right, the standards for mothers are extremely high, and we are forced to fit an ideal, and then when you couple motherhood with being an entrepreneur, it's just you have a whole nother set of standards right to live by, and we can say that with any role or identity, whether it's a sister, a daughter, a wife, right in each role we play there is a set of expectations, there are boxes that we're meant to check, and so every identity we assume, that's just another set of expectations. So, as an entrepreneur participating in business, in the public sector, we are meant to fit in a paradigm that was built in a patriarchy that was built based on and for men, right, and so we were taught that, if you want to, for a long time we didn't have the opportunity to participate, right. And then, when we were given the opportunity, for a long time we didn't have the opportunity to participate right, and then, when we were given the opportunity, it was okay, we will let you participate, but you will fit in this paradigm, in this masculine box, and that's how you need to show up. You have a uniform. If you do things this way, you will be treated equitably and taken seriously. And of course, we know we tried and we've bent over backwards to do it and it's still not true. It's still not true. And so for women, right?

Speaker 2:

I also think you know, for me, a big part of this journey and my own healing was realizing how much I had become inauthentic because I was trying to fit in that masculine box, that masculine way of being. I went to law school the legal field is extremely conservative and I was told right out of law school that if I wanted to get a job, that I needed to buy a navy blue pinstripe skirt suit and that that's what employers would expect to see a young female attorney in. That was the condition of employment, right, and that wasn't. I mean, I'm not super young, but I'm not super old, so it wasn't so long ago. And so, quite literally, there was a uniform prescribed for me.

Speaker 2:

And, Melissa, I'll say I hated skirt suits. I still hate skirt suits. I felt much more powerful in a black pantsuit, right. And now I show up in, you know, neon, pink suits and yellow suits, and and so, at a certain point, for entrepreneurs, yes, there are all of these boxes for women that were meant to fit If we want our business to be taken seriously, if we want to be taken seriously as business women. But at a certain point we realized that even when we are contorting ourselves and sacrificing our authenticity to fit in those boxes, we still aren't treated equitably.

Speaker 2:

So, I asked myself where does my true power come from? It comes from my unique being, from the most authentic expression of me, of my feminine, of my masculine and everything in between. So now I wear what I want and I expect to be taken seriously in this. I expect to be taken seriously in a neon yellow suit, if that's what I'm wearing that day and I find that in that expression I feel so much more powerful and more than that empowered than I ever did in that awful, boring navy blue pinstripe skirt suit.

Speaker 1:

Right, yeah, that was supposed to make you look and feel more powerful, but probably made you feel the opposite because it was the last thing that you wanted to be in.

Speaker 2:

Yes, it felt restrictive, it felt small, and I'll say I wore that. You know, in a court of law, one of the first days I ever set foot in a court of law and a male attorney came up to me and he rubbed my suit, he rubbed my shoulder and he said, nice, what's that made of? And immediately diminished me. Right, I felt so small. And so our power lies in being our biggest, boldest selves in the world as women, whether that is an expression of your feminine, your masculine and, as I said, anything in between, if it is you said anything in between, if it is you right, it's the saying give them you until you is what you want, or what they want, give them you until you is what they want. And I really think that that is what it's time for as women and entrepreneurs. Right, we are not fitting boxes anymore. We are breaking boxes, we are breaking the rules and we are being ourselves and asking not so much asking expecting to be taken seriously in the world and in the public sector, as businesswomen.

Speaker 1:

Also part of what creates these unrealistic expectations for us is, like I was thinking about it when you were talking about being a stay at home mom or like homeschooling your kids right, even that that you would think, oh well that you know you get to stay at home and take care of your kids and that takes a lot of the pressure off. But there's still so much like you still look on Facebook and you see like, oh, this mom does fun things with her kid every single day. And look on Facebook and you see like oh, this mom does fun things with her kid every single day and look how happy this family is. And oh, this mom doesn't feed her kids anything that has red dye, number three in it or gluten or whatever. And my kids just ate like pancakes for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Like there's always the comparison. So how do you? How do you handle that? The comparison.

Speaker 2:

So how do you? How do you handle that? So, as a writer, you're never supposed to write in cliches, but that rule doesn't apply when I'm speaking and cliches work so well. I'm going to use one right here. You know, they say that comparison is the thief of joy. For a reason it it is, it absolutely is. And here is the thief of joy, for a reason it is, it absolutely is. And here is the reason why Because and this even relates to your previous question about you know prescriptions and expectations for women and entrepreneurs.

Speaker 2:

Whatever business you're in to succeed, you will be given a list of prescriptions. Right? Social media is a great example. If you ask an expert what you need to do to grow your social media following, you will be given a list of steps. And that's great. It's not that they don't work, but what I realized is, yes, sure, consider them, but everyone is doing them.

Speaker 2:

When everyone is doing the same thing, it's really hard to stand out. It's not to say those things don't work, but it is to say that when everyone is following the same formula, right, it's not necessarily authentic or unique or interesting. And so when you are really stepping in and reconnecting with who you are authentically, which is the ultimate hero's journey within. What you find is that your path, your truest, most unique path, is going to be different from every single person out there. If out there, if every, if you are walking your unique, most aligned path, it will not look like anybody else's path.

Speaker 2:

So comparison is absolutely pointless, right? You living your most authentic life is never, ever, ever going to look the same as anyone else's, and that's the beauty of it, right? That's what makes it an adventure, that's what makes it interesting. You're going to be breaking rules you never thought you'd break. You're going to be taking risks and trying things you never thought you would try or do. If I hadn't done that, I wouldn't be sitting here with you right now, and so comparison is futile. There's nothing to compare because everyone's path is different. Path is different. Walking your path with both feet is going to look different every second, every minute, every day of your life. There's no, there's nothing to compare to from that place, and that is a place of creation. That is what it means to really create from the unknown, personally and professionally, and that's the secret sauce really to success, I think.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, and comparison really is. I mean, it's easy to do, we all do it, but it really is fake, because nobody else is starting from the same place as you, nobody else has the exact same experiences and education and you know personality or like life stories as you, but still we think for some reason that what worked for them should also work for us, and it should work for us in the same time frame. And if we do exactly the same thing that they do, it should work right Because it worked for them. But we forget all of that other like logical stuff about why that actually makes no sense. And I think what you're saying too, about letting go of comparison and just letting yourself be the whole time you're talking I'm thinking what you're saying takes a lot of courage.

Speaker 1:

And my next question was going to be about perfectionism and how perfectionism plays into these expectations as well. And I think letting go of that perfectionism also takes a lot of courage, because we want to follow the script, we want to follow the path that is laid out for us, because someone has said, if you do x, y and z, there's no, there's no risk, you won't fail, it won't be hard, you won't be uncomfortable, right, and that's ultimately what we're after as perfectionists too. Right, like if I can do everything perfectly, there's no chance I'll fail. There's no chance I'll do it wrong, there's no chance I'll be uncomfortable. So can you talk a little bit about perfectionism? But also like finding that courage that is required to be okay with failure or discomfort.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely so. The first thing about perfectionism and I say this as a serious perfectionist in my past, right, a serious perfectionist in my past, right, we all know deep down that perfect is unattainable. Right, perfection is a standard nobody achieves, ever, ever. We are all marvelously mortal. We are all perfectly imperfect, and so perfectionism and achieving that standard, the standard of perfect at all, is a complete illusion. Right, it's fake, it's not real.

Speaker 2:

It is, you know, it only exists in, like an Instagram photo, right, that was probably filtered, or one of like you know 300 that was taken, right? So, first of all, perfection isn't even a real thing. That said, it is real in that we hold ourselves to this, you know, illusory standard. Enlightening for me is that, when I was really in that space of trying to be perfect and living from a place of perfectionism, I had a therapist who wisely said to me she said you know, ashley, perfectionism is something we use to try to earn love and connection and keep us safe. Right, when we really look at why we try to be perfect, it's because we're trying to meet a standard, we're seeking other people's validation and approval and, even more than that, we're trying to earn love from people. Right, and she said the ironic thing about perfection is that it is not a means of connection.

Speaker 2:

It is a barrier to true love and connection, because when you appear perfect to other people, you are unrelatable, you are unattainable, you are untouchable. It is hard to connect with you. Right, and she was right. It's true, when we try so hard to be perfect, we block the things that we desire the most. You know people's responses to different emotions and what people had the strongest reaction to, and everyone thought it was going to be love. But it wasn't love actually, it was authenticity. Right, it was realness and so perfection. It isn't real, and when we are trying to be perfect, we aren't being real. So we are blocking all of that. Whether we're trying to connect with people through our business right as entrepreneurs, or whether we're trying to connect with people personally, perfectionism is a barrier to success and to the things that we desire most. Yeah, absolutely to success and to the things that we desire most, yeah absolutely.

Speaker 2:

And to answer, I guess, the other part of your question about finding the courage you it takes a lot of courage to be ourselves. And part of being ourselves is admitting that we aren't perfect. Right, that we don't know everything about everything, that we didn't wake up like this. Right that we make mistakes. Right that we fail gloriously sometimes, personally and professionally, and at first that can feel hard or scary, but the truth is, melissa, it is so liberating. Right Like that is the place where true self-love is born. Because it's one thing to love yourself when you know you're on, you're having your best day and you're feeling great and your hair's done.

Speaker 2:

But really loving yourself means loving yourself when you have just failed gloriously right, when you have just made a mistake, when you look your worst, when you feel your worst. And in that place of saying, as a woman, as a business woman, as a wife, as a mother, as a friend, as a sister, as a daughter, I am worthy, I am enough, I am beloved, just because of my authentic being and not because of anything I'll ever do or any standard or expectation I'll ever meet. But I am whole, complete, fulfilled and content with who I am. As I am, I am marvelously mortal, I am hopelessly human and perfectly imperfect. Like that is freedom.

Speaker 2:

Right, because you're not trying to be perfect, right, and so now nobody can tell you anything about yourself that you don't already know. And as a woman who wrote a book like I have oh, my God, if I wasn't living from that place, melissa like this would be poor. Like writing a book like that would be horrible. Not everybody is going to love it, but that's OK, because I know who I am and I'm not trying to be perfect. I didn't wake up like this and it's all okay. It's all okay, and so it does take courage to live that way, but, my God, it is so much more liberating than living in this perfectionist illusion.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's beautiful. So if people are listening to this and they are like, okay, I'm on board with everything you're saying, sounds great, sign me up, let's do all that. What is what is something that you recommend Like? What is something we could do today, whether it is a mindset shift, an exercise, something I would say probably the first step would be to buy Unhappy Achiever. I mean, that would be my recommendation. But what is something else perhaps that you recommend people start doing today to kind of try to turn this around and loosen up some of those expectations and be more of their authentic selves?

Speaker 2:

Well, there's a couple, a couple of things I would recommend. First of all, as women, and especially as entrepreneurs, the expectations, the demands on our time are so great that we are often the last on our list of people that we're dedicating time to or taking care of, and so the first thing that I would say is, when you are rediscovering aspects of yourself that you've lost touch with, that requires time, right To unbury them from your being, and so the first thing I would say is carve out some time for you, and, as busy women, that can be a big ask, and so I'm not asking you for 30 minutes, even I'm asking you for maybe five to 10 minutes. Can you take five to 10 minutes to go on a walk outside? To go on a walk outside to sit and sip a cup of coffee and just be right To journal, to just write in a journal and just write whatever comes to mind, right? Or to do something that just brings you joy, to listen to music, and then that's the other piece. Start carving out some time for you, even if it's only five to 10 minutes a day, to just be, to do whatever you feel called to do in that moment. Again, there are no rules right. If it's right for you, it's right and you're, you are on the right path.

Speaker 2:

And so the other thing I would say is think about what you love to do when you were a kid, when you were eight years old.

Speaker 2:

What did you love to do? Because when we were eight years old, we did what we did for nothing but the sake of joy. Right, we did what we did because it lit us up from the inside out. So I want you to think back to your childhood and to that version of yourself that did something from a place of pure, unadulterated happiness and joy, and see what she loved to do and ask yourself is there a way that I could do that again? Could I carve out some time to do that thing that I used to love? And if that thing was, you know, like a more child-like activity, then is, can I look at that activity I used to do and find the thread that I really loved about it and find a way to translate that into my life now and to bring that back, because reconnecting with those parts of ourselves puts us on a path of rediscovery and finding and coming home to ourselves again.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's great advice, and what I love about what you're saying, too, is that this advice everything that we're talking about today applies on a very personal level, right Like it applies to who you are as a human and who you are in your relationships with other humans outside of your business. But we can't really separate those two. There's not like Ashley the mom, ashley the friend, ashley the author right Like. Yes, there are differences, clearly, but who you are in one of those spaces is influences who you are in those other spaces. And when you're taking better care of Ashley the human, when you're in touch with Ashley the human, you're loving on her, you're accepting her, you are, you know, reminding her of her worth. That has an impact on Ashley the author. That has an impact on Ashley the business owner, has an impact on Ashley the mom, and so I just wanted to put that out there. If people are listening to this and they're like, what does this have to do with business? Like it has everything to do with business.

Speaker 2:

It absolutely does, melissa, and I'm really glad that you said that, because, even relating to what we discussed earlier in our conversation, with expectations and perfectionism, when I was operating from that place in my work, in my business, right, when I was operating as that constructed, inauthentic version of myself, when I was trying to be perfect, when I was trying to meet everyone's expectations, I was living as that other version of me and it was exhausting. It took so much energy to be out in the world doing my work because I was trying to be this person that I thought I should be and that everyone wanted to be, and trying to be that is absolutely impossibly depleting, draining, and so we go out in the world and we come home and we have nothing left, right, because it took so much energy to be that version of ourselves as women. But as I have become me, I show up as me here with you, I show up as me with my children, I show up as me with my friends, I show up as me when I'm out in the world as an author and a speaker, and it's not exhausting because wherever I am, I'm just being me, right and it's okay. So that energy drain that I used to feel is gone.

Speaker 2:

And when I'm out in the world, I'm just like I'm Ashley, right, I might look a little, I might, you know, I might not be in my bathrobe like I am when I wake up with my kids in the morning, but the core of my being, the expression of me, is no different, right, I'm just stepping into a different role, but I'm always stepping into any role that I assume and that I live in, my, in my life, as me.

Speaker 2:

That's all I have to do, and that is the weight that is lifted from our shoulders when we do that is tenfold, and the connection that we're able to make with people in our businesses and in our personal lives when we're operating from that place is unreal. I've never had more unconditional love in my life than I have today, and I've been unpartnered for the first time in my entire life for the past two and a half years. And still, I've never had more unconditional love, from my work to my friendships, to my relationships with my children. Right, and it's all because I'm walking my, my own unique, aligned path and I'm just being me for the first time.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, I love that. Ok, I'm going to put the link to your amazing book Unhappy Achiever Rejecting the Good Girl Image and Reclaiming the Joy of Inner Fulfillment. I will put the link to that in the show notes because it's amazing. If people want to connect with you, they want to learn more about you. What is the best way for them to do that?

Speaker 2:

Sure, they can find me on Instagram at Ms Ash A-S-H Jordan J-O-R-D-A-N, and they can also find me at ashjordancom and unhappyachievercom.

Speaker 1:

Perfect. I will put all those links in the show notes and thank you so much for coming on the podcast. This was a great interview. This is one that I don't listen to every single one I used to but it's really good to listen to them back, because I always hear something different than I heard when I was interviewing the person and this is definitely one that I'm going to listen to back, probably multiple times. So thank you so much for coming and sharing your experiences and being vulnerable and sharing your authenticity and your wisdom. It's super, super helpful and inspiring.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, melissa. It was an absolute delight to talk to you and I'm just grateful to be here, so thanks again for having me.

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