Powerful Women Rising - A Business Podcast for Female Entrepreneurs

Shame Free Productivity w/Lisa Zawrotny

• Melissa Snow - Powerful Women Rising, LLC • Episode 98

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 Tired of feeling like you’re always behind, no matter how much you do? 

I feel you.  That's why in this episode I've brought in the big guns: Productivity Expert Lisa Zawrotny.  In this interview, Lisa offers a refreshing new perspective on what it means to be productive and how to create a workflow that supports your well-being and your goals.

In this episode, we cover:

  • What shame-free productivity really means 
  • How to identify and clear both physical and mental clutter
  • Why traditional to-do lists fail—and how to use a to-choose list instead
  • The role of core values in prioritizing your time and energy
  • Productivity strategies tailored for neurodiverse individuals (including those with ADHD)

Tune in for actionable strategies, mindset shifts, and permission to do less so you can actually enjoy your life. 

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Connect with Me, Your Host Melissa Snow!

Melissa Snow is a Business Relationship Strategist dedicated to empowering women in entrepreneurship. She founded the Powerful Women Rising Community, which provides female business owners with essential support and resources for business growth. Melissa's other mission is to revolutionize networking, promoting authenticity and genuine connections over sleazy sales tactics. She lives in Colorado Springs with her two dogs, three cats, and any number of foster kittens. She loves iced coffee, true crime, Taylor Swift, and buying books she’ll never read.

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Speaker 1:

Hello Lisa, Welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, Melissa. It's my pleasure to be here. I can't wait to dig in.

Speaker 1:

Good, I'm so excited to have you here talking about productivity, no less. But before we dig in, tell everybody a little bit about you and about what you do.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for asking. Hi, I'm Lisa Zerotny. I'm a productivity coach, the founder of Positively Productive Systems and the host of the Positively Living podcast. And I a productivity coach, the founder of Positively Productive Systems and the host of the Positively Living podcast, and I help my clients reduce the overwhelm, manage the stress and find the sustainable solutions, and we do this with compassion and humor. This is shame-free productivity. It's time to make things easier and do things our way, and I walk my own talk because I am a mom and a wife and a business owner and a caregiver. And then one of my favorite things to do to hide away from the world would be hanging out in a cozy spot with a good book and iced coffee and definitely trapped under a cat.

Speaker 1:

You had me at iced coffee and then you added cat and I just instantly fell in love with you there. Me at iced coffee, and then you added cat and I just instantly fell in love with you there were yeah, and if you like, tacos, we are now besties and we're good to go.

Speaker 2:

Okay, here we go.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so let's dive into productivity. I'm super excited for this conversation because it's funny we're talking now because I just got off a call with an executive function coach and we were talking about ADHD and neurodivergence and the challenges that many people have with being productive, or procrastination or feeling like you're lazy, but really it's just how your brain is wired and all of the different things. And I'm one of those people like I'm listening to your introduction and you said something about systems and I just like instantly started getting hives just because you said systems. So I'm very excited about this interview.

Speaker 2:

Good, and also what I said is shame free productivity. So I love that you brought up neurodiversity, because those really are my people. I live in a sea of ADHD and I think one of the reasons that I started to attract ADHD people is that I understand it, I get it and I know that there's a better way. You have superpowers, so let's stop pretending like that's a problem. The problem are the productivity solutions that are out there. These are my thoughts.

Speaker 1:

I love it. So when we're talking about productivity, tell us your definition of that word, so we're at least all on the same page.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely so. The idea of productivity originally came from the industrial revolution and it's sort of that do more, right, we have this amount of time. How do we get more things done, get more things created in this amount of time? And now what I want you to do is think about this information age and how. We're about quality not quantity. So now being productive means being able to get the stuff you need to get done so that you can make the space for the things that you want to do and that you need to do for your, your soul and your spirit and your energy that you need to do for your soul and your spirit and your energy. It's about living your best life, and that sounds cliche, but really it's about living in a way that makes you feel like you and that you feel good and proud and accomplished. You're achieving the goals that you want, but you're not doing it in such a difficult way. So that's my take on productivity doing the right things at the right time, the right way for you. I love that.

Speaker 1:

That's a great definition, cause I think a lot of times when we think of productivity, we think about like how do I do more so I can do more? Yeah, right, and we are saying how do I do more so I can do more, but do more of the things that I love, do more of the things that bring me joy, do more of the things that are really what I'm here to do, as opposed to like how do I get more done so I can go market some more or post more on social media, or like do more work?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, not do more so that you could do more work, but do more so that you can live more. The mantra of Positively Productive is to do less, live more and breathe easier. So, yeah, you're absolutely right. We're not trying to do more, in that, it's get more done. And part of that, or at least part of my coaching, is also being discerning about what really needs to be done, because we get in a busy trap. Yeah, we can feel like we're doing a lot, but are we really productive?

Speaker 1:

Yes, amen to that, says everyone. Who's ever had one of those days where I'm like man, I was so busy all day today, and then my husband's like what'd you do? And I'm like not really sure, but I was really busy, I did a lot, I did a lot of things. So one of the things that you talk about a lot is the idea of whole life decluttering.

Speaker 2:

Tell us, what that is and how that relates to productivity Great. So, just like you asked about productivity and let's be on the same page with defining it let's define clutter and I love to use Peter Walsh's quote which is clutter is not just the stuff on the floor, it's anything that stands between you and the life you want to be living. So, again, anything that stands between you and the life you want to be living so that means clutter in this context is a block of some kind. So that also means that not everything that everybody else may think is clutter let's use the air quotes now is necessarily clutter. For you, it is, once again, self-defined and that's really important.

Speaker 2:

But when you do find the things that are blocking you, that kind of clutter and that could be physical stuff strewn about your space, it could be all the stuff you are carrying in your brain Hello, hashtag mental load, especially for caregivers. It could be, yeah, physical mental space, anything like that. That's the stuff that's going to trigger guilt, it's going to be constantly distracting you from being present. It's going to make you feel overwhelmed all the time. It's going to therefore take your focus away and not allow you to actually be productive with the time that you have, and it is the thing that makes you end up being very busy and spinning your wheels and then being like what did I actually accomplish?

Speaker 1:

So if somebody is listening to this and they're like, yes, I relate to that definition. Whatever their definition of clutter is right, but they're like listening to you talk and they're like, yes, I've got that in my brain or in my office or in my life, what are some things that people can start doing right now, like simple steps people can start taking now that can help them get rid of some of that clutter and be less overwhelmed?

Speaker 2:

So the first thing is, of course, acknowledging that it is, in fact, clutter, and understanding okay, this is getting in my way. And also, maybe, acknowledging the things that aren't. Hello, my book lovers, right, maybe you know if that makes you happy, if it's what you want in your space and surrounding you. Now we're talking physical environment, because that's an easy place to start. You want to make sure you're surrounded by the things that make you happy, that inspire you, that energize you, because that will make you productive. So go ahead and tell the people who are like you have too many books to kick rocks. Okay, that's not a thing. But do identify the places where you're like wow, that's just, it's like we just said in the green room, it's just like a lot. When that feels like what you're feeling, it's a matter of saying okay then, what do I want this space for? And I think that's a great first question, even if it's mental clutter as well Like what do I need to be focusing on right now? Okay, then I need to pull out the things that are getting in my way. So in the physical space, there's a lot of different ways that you can do that, but identifying what you want to use the space for is your first step, and I do have a lot of resources, a framework for decluttering. That's all free on my podcast, so that's stuff that you can absolutely look up and see. But saying, okay, what do I want the space for? Great.

Speaker 2:

And then, on the mental side, what do I want the space for? Well, I want it to be fully present, I want my mind to be present, I want the brain fog to go away, I want the distractions to go away so I can focus, and on that side, the decluttering would be something you would call a mind sweep. Now that's David Allen's phrase from the framework Getting Things Done, and I do follow that somewhat. I've kind of made it my own, as I recommend everybody does. Sometimes people would call that a brain dump. So that's another way if it's on the mental side, and that is as simple as taking a notebook and taking everything that has your attention and putting it down there. That is step one, but there's some important steps after that if we're talking on the mental side, and I'm sure we'll get into it. But yeah, first steps would be what do I want this space for? And let me remove the items that immediately don't belong. Okay.

Speaker 1:

I love that Does that make sense. It does, and we're kind of talking about two different things at the same time, right, like the physical, actual cluttered space, and then also the clutter in our brain. And I love that, because I think people don't usually think of clutter in terms of what's happening in their brain. But I will tell you, there's a lot more clutter in my brain than there is in my office.

Speaker 1:

But I also think that's one of the reasons I'm so obsessed with not having clutter. Like my poor husband, he'll like set a glass down on the kitchen counter halfway through his drink and then he comes back for it and it's gone. And I'm like he's like where's my drink? I'm like it was on the counter. He's like that's where it goes. I'm like, no, nothing goes on the counter. And it's probably because there's so much in my brain that having clutter in the physical space is like too much.

Speaker 2:

Yes, you have hit a very important point and a correlation here, and the way that I phrase it is that the red carpet and couldn't figure out what to wear. It's like a daily thing now, but it's not normally like that. It can hint to you that your schedule is over full and sometimes you just know, oh, we're in a busy season. It's a little crazy pants right now and this weekend I'll take a little extra time and reset it, bring it back to neutral. And other times it can be like like this is getting worse and worse. I'm trending in the wrong direction. Let me catch that.

Speaker 2:

So sometimes it can be a clue, sometimes it can be a manifestation, especially physically. But to your point, yeah, you are looking to make sure that your environment is as conducive as possible, because it sounds like the you know, internal workings is where you have so much clutter. And for those of us who love to have ideas, like I, I'm multi passionate and I all the ideas and, again, anyone who's neurodiverse probably does that because you're making connections and creating all the time and you can't help it. So you want to make sure you have enough space to do that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely. I've talked about this before on the podcast. I did an episode several months ago about shiny object syndrome and one of the things I said on there was my VA finally created a Slack channel for us that's just called Brain Dump, and she's like every time you have a great idea, I want you to just put it in here, just put it in the folder, and I put them in there and sometimes I come back to them and I'm like, yeah, that actually wasn't that great of an idea. Sometimes I come back to them and I'm like this is a great idea, let's make it happen. But at least to have somewhere to just like get it out of my brain is super helpful.

Speaker 2:

I love that. Snaps to your VA for suggesting that system.

Speaker 1:

See, that's a system.

Speaker 2:

We need to not be afraid of the word system. A system can be. I'm writing things down in a notebook so I don't feel like I'm constantly having to remember, because that never works. So that's great and that's like the. Sometimes people will call that a parking lot, where you're just like setting it somewhere. You know long-term parking right and then you come back to it.

Speaker 2:

And what I love about that is it's not distracting you, pulling you away from what you currently need to be focusing on, but you and also and the other aspect of this is you could be like oh, I had that great idea, what was it? Now you're like so frustrated. Ask me how I know. So you put that someplace safe and then take a breather and then you get to intentionally and specifically choose when you are going to consider whether or not it is really a good idea, whether it's a good idea now or sometime in the future. You get to process the specifics about it and what you're going to do with it. Not every idea we have, you know, needs to become something, but it's wonderful when we have the space and the system that allows us to to let it flow, because that idea may inspire or inform something else even better.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I love what you said about systems too, because I get crazy about the one size fits all in any aspect of business or life really, because there's a lot of things that work for a lot of people and we pay $10,000 to learn the step-by-step framework that took me from zero to 5 million in 90 seconds, and maybe it did take her from zero to 5 million in 90 seconds. I don't know that it did, but maybe it did. But that doesn't mean it's going to take you from zero to 5 million in 90 seconds. Right, and same thing with decluttering or productivity or any of these kinds of things. It's like everybody you ask on social media what's the best planner, right, like for those who use people right.

Speaker 1:

You're going to get 50 different responses because everybody's found this one planner that works amazing for them. And then us with ADHD are like I have 94 to 2024 planners and all of them have a week filled out. So it's like everything else there's something that works for you and there's something that works for somebody else. And systems doesn't necessarily have to mean like I always think system means like technology and automation and things like that. And sometimes, yeah, your system is sticky notes, sometimes your system is a to-do list, right.

Speaker 2:

Right and it's understanding, like how your brain works best and what you feel, a lot of times a bullet journal, but not even, not even done the traditional Bujo style which has rules, cause I don't like rules. I'm like like I'm a little, a little rebel in me, you know, but it's like no, but I like that writing down. Now I've personally gone to a rocket book because I love writing. It works with my brain, but I also don't want to kill trees constantly, so I write and then I upload and erase and that makes me happy. But, yeah, it's talking to someone and saying, okay, what do you like? How does that work? Oh wait, you can't possibly listen to an audio book because, like two seconds in you're gonna be like squirrel.

Speaker 2:

Okay, so how do you absorb information best? How do you like to connect and capture information? Finding that, answering those questions to me is the way to find the solutions. It actually drives me crazy in the productivity industry that they have those magic bullets. But the reason they have the magic bullet oh, this is going to fix everything. This is the system you want for your business to scale. The reason they're doing that is to sell it, not because it will work for you.

Speaker 1:

Right, yeah, absolutely. It reminds me. In the Powerful Women Rising community, the online community that I run, I added a content creation co-working call. That's four hours a month at the beginning of the month, because I had so many members that were like I need to be posting on social media, I need to be, and it would just like loom over their head all month long. And then we get to the next month and they'd be like I didn't do anything on social media.

Speaker 1:

I really wanted to. So I'm like listen, four hours beginning of the month, we're going to get it all done and then you don't have to think about it for the rest of the month. And I have members who who have like, when I rolled it out, we're like why would I do that? Like why, why, why would I ever come to that? Like they just could not even wrap their brain around, like why, that is a thing and they've never come. And so it just is interesting like what works for some people to get things done and what works for other people to get things done.

Speaker 2:

Exactly to get things done and what works for other people to get things done Exactly. So, personality and tendencies and the way that we function and process information all of these things feed in and that's how I work with my clients. It's so funny. We don't talk about what's your, what planner do you have, or do you use Trello or Asana we do, eventually but the first things we talk about is what are your core values? What are you trying to achieve? What's what matters to you? Uh, we do um assessments like your, uh, your core values, the four tendencies. I absolutely love that.

Speaker 2:

If you have upholders who, who are more toward like the type a, the structured, the discipline, they're going to look at your co-working session which I think is fabulous, by the way and they're going to say at your co-working session which I think is fabulous, by the way and they're going to say why would I even need that? But when you have obligers who absolutely need that external accountability, they're going to be like this is the best thing ever, because if you don't have this, I'm not showing up for myself. So, understanding those things, answering those questions, that's how we create the right frameworks and yeah, and so you can see it, you can see it in a different way. People work and especially I've noticed, if you have ADHD, that doing something called in the accountability of coworking, something called body doubling that's what makes it so powerful is that you it's like you're matching energy and the energy is to get work done.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I want to go back to what you said at the beginning of that sentence about how the first thing that you do is not ask people like, are you using Trello, what planner do you have? Because that is totally what I expected to be where you started.

Speaker 1:

And the first thing you said was what are your core values, and I think this is really important for people to hear. So I want to make sure we don't skip over it, because I think I have an idea why that might be one of the first questions that you ask. But why is that something that's important for people to know and think about when they are trying to be more productive?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, thank you for asking that, because it is like one of those key things that that we sometimes miss, and, you know, if you don't have the right foundation to something, then it's really hard to build on it, and so I'll use an example in the decluttering world. Maybe some of you might remember Marie Kondo and how she was a big hit with decluttering, and it was, you know, what sparks joy. What worked with that solution was the fact that she had a very simple question, one question. You could answer it, and for some people they were like this is the best thing since sliced bread. This is awesome. But I had so many people who came to me and like, I tried it and it just didn't work. What's wrong with me? I'm like absolutely nothing. It's the system, because it's limited.

Speaker 2:

She created a simple filter, which is what we need when you're trying to sell to a mass audience. Right, One simple thing that you can do, but it's not going to work for everybody. What I realized is you need to create what I call filters for your choices what belongs in your life, what doesn't, what belongs on your to-do list, what belongs on your calendar, what belongs in your closet, and then, conversely, what doesn't. So now, when you are creating these filters, a big part of that is what you value, and you and I actually talked about this in terms of like when we would schedule, when we're going to record and what kind of conflicts we might have when you value something. I'll use an example. As a mom, I have always valued being there to pick up my kids from school and valuing just aspects of connecting with my kids and being there for them. Every time I tried to book an appointment or maybe try to work out in a group class at the gym you name it stuff that I really loved and wanted to do, I found myself canceling those. Why? Because, well, sometimes we call this a cognitive dissonance. Right, where you have conflicting values, one of them's got to win. We don't have ties in the world of values. There's always prioritizing based on what matters to us and there's something that's got to win.

Speaker 2:

So if we dig in deep to what you value and what you're like and how you work and what matters to you, you show me your it like and how you work and what matters to you. You show me your. It used to be checkbook. Okay, now you show me your Venmo and your calendar, I'll tell you. I'll tell you what matters when we understand that.

Speaker 2:

That's going to tell us so much about not only what you need to keep in your space whatever space that is but also how you are going to create the best kind of habits. Right, because the habits are the drivers that are going to make that work for you. Example too so we talked about core values there. But if you are an extrovert or an introvert, if you value deep connection with people, then and you're an introvert if you value deep connection with people, then and you're an introvert which is often a strong correlation then trying to go to these big in-person networking events is going to sound equivalent to root canal. It doesn't make sense. So the more we identify those, those pieces of you, first and foremost, then we can build the right foundation for being productive and getting stuff done.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I think that goes back to a question I was going to ask you about something you said in the very beginning in terms of being able to actually identify, like, what are the priorities, what is actually important, especially, I think, for entrepreneurs and business owners, because I think it feels like everything is important all the time, right Like I've always got to like be getting in front of a new audience, I've got to be nurturing the audience that I have, I've got to be converting people to paying clients, I've got to be delivering to my paying clients, like everything is important, and so I think that values work and also the other things you mentioned about just like knowing yourself and why you're doing what you're doing, is a huge part in helping you identify what is truly important and what is a priority when. Yeah exactly.

Speaker 2:

So prioritization, by the way, can be like more of a challenge for those with ADHD. I've definitely noticed this. So I would say for my clients who do have that, which are actually the majority of my clients, the majority of the work that we do is often prioritization, and sometimes it takes like asking questions of you know, okay, what matters more to you, and then, if it well, it feels like they're the same, then you have to dig down, you have to keep asking the questions. Well, it feels like they're the same, then you have to dig down, you have to keep asking the questions. So it really is kind of I've never described it this way, but again, I love that you ask these questions and then it has me thinking too that we start with that what matters to you as a person and that what matters to you. And the same way that we talk about core values personally, we also look at core values for our business. Right, we should have our own personal mission and our business mission, and a lot of times there's a very strong correlation with the two. And then, when you have those drivers, you understand those things, you start answering these questions and then, um, when we work together, we start with that as the foundation. And then, once you get clear on those things and you're like, okay, and now this is what I'm working with and this is what I want to accomplish, now we start getting into what everybody thinks of as productivity, like.

Speaker 2:

One of my favorite principles is the Pareto principle, the 80 20 principle that you can get 80% of your output, 80% of the way to your goal, with only 20% of the input. Right, I love that. That is leveraging that I am here for and we have a joke in my family. My kids know this, I use it like a verb let's 80-20 the sucker. Let's not try to do all the things. That's where the busy work comes in. Instead, let's back up and say so when you're like saying the social media right, that we're always like I got to get to that. I got to get to that planning.

Speaker 2:

Well, what's 20% of that list that you need to do? That could be 20% in terms of looking at platforms that you're on. For me, it's Instagram and LinkedIn. Those are my places. Or what's 20% of the content you're going to create? That's going to get you 80% where the people are, where your people are, what feels authentic to you, what matches your energy, all of that. Those are the ways that we slide from personally what matters into how do we be productive in the traditional sense. But even so, it's not traditional anymore, because now it's completely based on you. It's a system that's personalized to you. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1:

That's awesome. So we can't talk about productivity without talking about to-do lists, so true. So I want to know what you think about to-do lists, pros and cons. Do we like them? Do we not like them? Do they help? Where are we at with to-do lists? So?

Speaker 2:

funny there years ago oh my God, it's probably like a decade now. I think Richard Branson was like I don't use to-do lists and I'm like, well, good for you, and also you're Richard Branson, but that's another story for another day.

Speaker 1:

I'm pretty sure his 80 assistants have to-do lists.

Speaker 2:

Right, exactly, but it was the idea of, oh, I schedule everything or whatever, and there's again a lot of theories out there. So, being discerning about what's coming into you, how you quote, need to do it. That it's really going to be up to you. But here are my thoughts and now that you know where I stand with how we function and the questions we need to ask ourselves, I'm a fan of to-do lists because they help guide us and they allow us to be present in the doing, as opposed to the remembering what to do. That's important, but I do see a lot of confusion when it comes to what constitutes a to-do list. So we talked about the mental decluttering part, the mind sweep. What has your attention when we do that, or brain dump as some people will call it? Get all the stuff out of your head, write it down Great. Here's the big mistake. And if you take away nothing today other than you're amazing and you can absolutely do this and don't be scared of systems, what I want you to take away is the idea that when you put this, all the stuff down from your brain, that is not your to-do list, that is your to choose list. You're going to choose what to do with it. It might be waiting, it might be throwing it in that parking lot we talked about. It might be like looking at it and being like what the heck did I write that down for? Why am I still dealing with that? Let's let it go. It's a process place. It's merely a capture. That's a safe place to hold what's been distracting you so that you can figure out what to do with it when you're ready.

Speaker 2:

The real to-do list is like three to five things per day or per session, work session or whatever that you're identifying. Those are those priorities that we talked about, where then you've processed it and you look at all this stuff, or you look at all the stuff you just wrote down and we think about that 80-20. Like, oh, there's only 20%. I mean, I'm sorry I'm making you do math, but I promise it's rather easy math, but okay, so it's like all right, fine, we got 10 things. Look for the two, yeah, that are going to get you really far. And as soon as you have your mind thinking in that way, you're already looking for the most productive things, the things that are going to carry you further, faster, and then that does wonderful things right. It like spins you into like, ooh, I'm encouraged and I'm making progress, and look at me, go, I can actually do something else. But all that to say, we have to be careful about what the to-do list actually is.

Speaker 1:

I love that the idea of a to-choose list and the idea that not everything that you write down is your to-do list. Yes, and especially not your to-do list for the day.

Speaker 2:

Especially, yes, but not even in general. It's more of a pool of information. And what I recommend I do have a free, guided mind sweep right that you can download that says do this right. It takes like five minutes and keep doing it and you could use the same notebook or the same notes on your phone. You know wherever it makes you happy to capture and keep adding things, and then you just set a time. It could be once a week. It depends on how much you're downloading, how busy you feel. You know how overwhelmed you feel, but you remove the stuff from your brain, you take time to process it and it stays there. And what's nice is you remind your brain don't worry about that birthday, you know. Event idea that you had that's going to be two months from now, just yet idea that you had that's going to be two months from now.

Speaker 1:

Just yet it's not time for that yet, but don't worry, it's safe there. Right? Yeah, I have a list that I keep next to me at my computer. This is one of my productivity hacks that I found, because I will be doing something like talking to you and in the middle of our conversation I'll see you take a drink, and then I'll be like, oh, I forgot to unload the dishwasher, or you know like I'll see something happen and I'm like, oh, I need to order groceries or whatever it is, and then I'll start doing that thing, and in the middle of that thing I'll remember I need to do another thing, and so then I'll start doing that thing.

Speaker 1:

So every time I remember something I need to do, I just write it down on the list and what I've also noticed is I have a new list every week and I noticed sometimes there are things that move to the next week, that I've literally moved to the next week probably 10 times, and so there comes a point where I'm like, why are we still moving this? Like, is it something that doesn't actually need to be done? Is it something that really does need to be done? I just keep putting it off, and if so, why and how am I ever going to get it off this to-do list, or do I just need to take it off?

Speaker 2:

And you're identifying, basically, to-do list clutter. Right, that's a form of clutter, because it can, because and this is an important thing If you have a really long to-do list, all your brain is ever telling you is look what you're not getting done, look what, oh, you didn't get that done. And especially if you put it on the next list and the next and the next, and suddenly you know you're like okay, great, so this is just going to haunt me forever. And now I feel like the world's most horrible person. It doesn't matter how much I have achieved or how much I've done, because our brains love to close the task loop. Our brains are like what did you accomplish last week? We don't, I don't, literally don't care anymore. What haven't you gotten done? That that's, that's all we're focused on. So you're identifying things that we have to ask like why do we keep dragging this along? Why do I keep that crazy pair of shoes in the closet? Do I really think like I'm wearing those? Like not anymore?

Speaker 1:

not with these ankles.

Speaker 2:

I'm just telling yeah, exactly, you have to make, uh tough choices and I I don't know if we have the the time for it, but, um, I can give you, um, four tips for for the to-do list, especially as relates to what you're talking about. Yeah, so you may have heard systems out there that say like 3ds or 4ds and and people talk about like doing and delegating and stuff, and I have four Ds. But the order is very important and here's why, with deleting or decluttering right, it's so important that you declutter first, because you don't want to organize what you don't intend to keep. True Makes sense. Adding something to the to-do list that you're not going to keep, that you're not going to do that. Why do you even have that? Asking that question so smart? Because at some point you have to be like we're just going to let this go. We're letting it go, fly, be free. I'm done with you, because otherwise it's lingering, it's taking up space, it's taking up focus, it's adding guilt where it doesn't belong. Let's just let that go. So, yeah, don't list what you don't intend to do on a to-do list. So if it doesn't belong anymore, let it go. And if you're like I can't quite.

Speaker 2:

There are three other D's we can talk about. The next is delegating. Now, this is where you look at the rest of it. You're like I couldn't quite let you go, but I'm only one person, so I asked the question how can it get done? And that's different from how can I do this. You're triggering your brain in a really good way to be like oh, let's get creative and delegating Now. You talked about systems before and how you thought about tech. That's actually where it can be a really good thing. Automation is a form of delegation. I follow up with my podcast guests and with different people in a lot of ways that are automated. So it's you know, it's not just how can you do it, but how can it get done, and that's opening your mind to a creative way to still make things happen, but it's not always on you.

Speaker 2:

The third D is to delay it, and that's a little bit like the parking lot idea, where it's not necessarily someday, but it's also a not now. We have to be very clear Maybe in the next week or two, we're just not dealing with this. This is not happening. We have other things we need to focus on, but there's such a difference psychologically, when you intentionally delay something and say I'm looking at this again in three months, versus it lingering on your to-do list over and, over and over again, reminding you that you haven't dealt with it.

Speaker 2:

And sometimes that's not even a matter of not doing the thing, but that you have decisions to make about it, questions to ask, research to do, and so it feels really unfair that it's lingering there, like you know, just trying to get your attention, being like, hey, focus on me and you're like not right now. So if you say nope, I'm going to set a calendar event. Or for me I use Todoist, so again, again. That's another automated way where I can say I'm going to look at it weeks from now and then I'll make a decision. That's when I, that's when I have the time to do it and that's what I'll do it. Those three D's right there make such a difference in bringing you to a true to-do list. So the fourth D is actually doing Now you can take action, now you prioritize. It's just like organizing anything the fewer things you have to organize, the easier.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely so. The first three are helping us have less things to organize Bingo. When we do the fourth and does that sound good?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I love that. Do less Does that sound good? Yeah, I love that. Do less, live more, breathe easier. I was waiting for it. I love that. This is really, really good stuff. So, if people want to connect with you, I know you have an amazing podcast. You've been doing it for a long time, so good. Lots of other awesome ways for them to connect with you and get to know you, learn more about what you do and how they can be more productive. What's the best way for them to get in touch with you and find all that?

Speaker 2:

thank you. So you're listening to an amazing podcast right now so you can hop over to positively living. I would be honored to have you there, but really the hub where you can find all the different places to find me is positivelyproductivecom. From there you can shoot over to podcast episodes. You can come find me and play with me on Instagram. I do a lot of ridiculous reels, all in honor of stress management, because we have to laugh and have fun and that's positively underscore, lisa.

Speaker 1:

Awesome. I will put your link to the website in the show notes, also the link to the podcast, your Instagram, but people can get everything from the website. Look how we streamline things to make people more productive. I love that. I love that for us. Thank you so much for this interview. It was awesome. I really appreciate talking to you. Thank you, melissa, it's my pleasure.

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Melissa Snow

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