Femininity is Not a Weakness: Breaking Free from Professional Stereotypes w/Lauren Varner, Esq.

Being your full, unapologetic self isn’t a liability - it’s a strategy. 

What if everything you’ve been taught about how to be “professional” is actually holding you back?

In this episode, attorney Lauren Varner shares how she broke free from the outdated stereotypes that often demand women dim their light in order to be taken seriously. 

From ponytails and pantyhose to sexy outfits and bold billboards, Lauren’s evolution is a masterclass in what happens when you stop trying to fit in - and start leading with your whole, authentic self.

Together, we unpack what it really means to be professional, why embracing your femininity gives you an advantage in business, and how to deal with the people who just don't get it.

In this episode, we cover:

• How traditional “professionalism” punishes self-expression - especially for women
• What happens when you stop trying to be palatable and allow yourself to be powerful
• The emotional toll of shrinking yourself to make other people more comfortable
• How to handle criticism from mentors, colleagues, or the internet with grace (and fire)
• How typically feminine traits like empathy, vulnerability, and style can be your business superpowers

If you’ve ever been told to tone it down, cover it up, or be less “you” in order to get ahead - this conversation will light a fire in you.

Links & References:

• Join us at our next PWR Virtual Speed Networking Event!
• For even deeper connections, check out the Powerful Women Rising Community!
• Learn more about Varner Faddis Elite Legal
• Follow Lauren and Varner Faddis Elite Legal on Instagram

Chapters

• 0:00 Meeting Lauren Varner: Personal Injury Attorney
• 2:09 Professional Pressure and Masculinity Standards
• 5:45 Challenging Legal Industry Norms
• 9:00 Authentic Self-Expression in Branding
• 13:20 Dealing with Criticism and Finding Confidence
• 21:30 Embracing Femininity as Professional Strength
• 26:45 Connect with Lauren and Her Firm

Transcript

Melissa Snow: 0:02

Hello Lauren, welcome to the podcast. Hi, melissa, thanks for having me. Yes, I'm so excited to talk to you. I've been trying to get you on the podcast for a long time.

Melissa Snow: 0:13

You have, because I just love we're going to talk about all of this, but I just love following. We've known each other for a while. I love following your journey and just seeing you know. One of the things that I talk about all the time on the podcast is authenticity and showing up as yourself, and we are so afraid to do that for many different reasons, and I just have loved watching you become like more and more of yourself and I'm going to check the explicit content button right now so I can just like be yourself and not give a fuck, and it's like really working for you and I love that. So, before we keep talking, tell everybody a little bit about you, who you are what you do, sure.

Lauren Varner: 0:57

My name is Lauren Varner, as you mentioned, and I'm a plaintiff's personal injury attorney. I handle wrongful death cases and injury cases cases like auto accidents and injuries that occur on someone else's property. I am from Denver and I own a law firm with my husband, eric Faddis. He also practices personal injury, wrongful death, and he does some criminal defense work as well.

Melissa Snow: 1:26

Awesome. So for people who are listening who are like wait, I thought this was a business podcast. Why do we have an attorney talking to us and she's not talking about business law? The reason I wanted you to come on is to talk about that very subject, because you are basically in a pretty male, old, male dominated field, and I wanted to start just by asking you about your experience. You know you've had more experience being a lawyer now you're not a baby lawyer but as time has gone on, how have you experienced pressure, either from yourself or from other people, to present yourself in a certain way or to be a certain person in order to be taken seriously in your field?

Lauren Varner: 2:12

Yeah, I mean authentic self-expression I've learned as I've been building the firm and just like growing into myself, is something that I value. It's a very important value to me for many reasons. I just think that without being true to yourself, you're not really healthy. Right expectation from, I would say, men, but just from the culture more broadly, where there's an expectation that you present yourself in a certain way, because, whatever that box is and that definition, that's what's deemed professional, and I found with time that that definition is really aligned with masculinity, character traits that we would typically consider more masculine. And you know, I wanted to be taken seriously, I wanted to, you know, build my reputation as a lawyer within the community and when I'm engaging with opposing counsel, and so I impose that pressure on myself and I feel like it was also externally placed upon me. But because of both of those forces, I really internalized what I thought I was supposed to look like, how I was supposed to talk, how I was supposed to dress, what our branding and our marketing looked like. I internalized all of that and, like I said, it wasn't healthy. I mean, I just started to feel this growing tension around how uncomfortable that felt, right, as self-expression, authenticity became a growing um.

Lauren Varner: 4:05

As authentic self-expression became a more important value to me, I became increasingly uncomfortable trying to fit into this mold that was not me. And, like that little whisper just became louder and louder and louder, just became louder and louder and louder and I think at some point it became so loud I decided, more out of like rebellion than anything else, that I was just going to like be me. And it's been uncomfortable because the field of law is so traditional in a lot of ways. I mean, there are still certain judges who expect women to come to court and, like, you know, your skirt, suit and pantyhose and anything else is, you know, an affront to the court. But yeah, I mean, I think I finally decided I can't live this way, right, it's not true to who I am, it's not true to the life that I want to live. And over time I had to become more and more comfortable with that. Let me rephrase that Over time I became more and more comfortable with that Because when you're socialized over time through all of these different means and messages to really, I guess, force yourself to fit into that mold, doing something else is very uncomfortable at first, right, until you start to create new patterns and habits and new neural pathways.

Lauren Varner: 5:45

That shit is uncomfortable and I'm pretty sure you just know me and you hit the explicit button for me. So thank you Because, yeah, that's part of my authentic self-expression. Right, I have a tendency to have a potty mouth sometimes and, like I accept that that's part of who I am. But, yeah, I'm really happy to say that I feel comfortable dressing how I want to dress. You know, presenting marketing and branding that isn't mainstream for lawyers. That's really reflective of who we are and our personal brand, and engaging with opposing counsel in a way that feels authentic to me. Right, a lot of people feel like they got to come in hard and assert themselves and they're a bully, and I've just found, when people think that you're an asshole, it makes things more difficult for you and your client. So that was a really long response.

Melissa Snow: 6:48

It was a great response. I have like a thousand follow-up questions. Now, though, ask away. My first question is have you had experiences and I don't know if people ever actually say this to your face but have you had experiences where people have said, like you are not at all what I thought you were going to be?

Lauren Varner: 7:11

Um, I don't, I don't know.

Lauren Varner: 7:13

I mean, I get a lot of I still get a lot of criticism from people saying I shouldn't be this way, right? I mean, I think I don't know. I know that some clients and defense counsel like watch us from afar or watch us from the sidelines on our social media and things like that, and I really don't know if I'm different from how they thought I would be, but I know that for a lot of them I'm different from how they feel I should be. And, again, that really just motivates me to step more into who I am and that authentic self-expression that we're talking about. And I think part of that is like not allowing these external forces or anybody to tell me that I cannot or should not be who I am right, because at the root of that is this implication that like who you are at your core is not good enough, right, because at the root of that is this implication that like who you are at your core is not good enough, right, and I'm just not willing to subscribe to that anymore.

Melissa Snow: 8:12

Yeah, Do you ever feel like you have to try harder to prove yourself? Or did you feel like that in the beginning at least, when you were allowing yourself to be more of yourself? And I mean, I probably should have said this in the beginning. But for those who don't know you, you are a gorgeous woman. You are very into fashion.

Melissa Snow: 8:32

You are always showing up like well, I shouldn't even say always showing up, because I see you on social media in your sweats, like working that also but just always showing up in like whatever you want to be showing up in, and you post pictures of yourself that are incredibly sexy. You post pictures of yourself that are sexy even though you're in sweats on the couch with your dogs, Right? So that's what. That's really what we're talking about when we're talking about, like the things that you do, that people feel like, oh, you should not be that way. And so I'm just wondering, like that was kind of where I was going with the question about people saying like, like, are they surprised that you're smart? Or like, are they surprised that you know what you're doing?

Lauren Varner: 9:16

I mean, I think so, I think so and I and I have felt some pressure to really assert myself in those ways right Gain credibility with opposing counsel, clients, experts, the court, because I know that my self-expression is different and I just think I have because of that, I have less room for error, does that?

Lauren Varner: 9:42

make sense Mm-hmm, and I don't think that that's fair. I mean, I understand it to some degree, but you know, really, my part of my goal. I mean, we have a number of goals that are related to our branding and our marketing, but part of I was as background. I was a sociology major in college and so we studied like how, how do we perpetuate or how do we challenge ideologies, right, and so one method for doing that is through what we make visible, what we say, um, what we put out in our social media, on our websites, things like that.

Melissa Snow: 10:23

So, um, I forgot the first part of the comment, okay it was feeling like you had to prove yourself is where you started.

Lauren Varner: 10:38

Damn it, melissa. See, I told you this happens. I jinxed you by even bringing it up. No, sorry, okay, can you ask me the question again?

Melissa Snow: 10:49

Yeah, if I remember what the question was, sorry, no, that's okay. I was basically. Yeah, if I remember what the question was, no, that's okay. It was basically. Oh, it was basically about you showing up, the way that you show up, and wondering if people are surprised that you are smart or surprised that you know what you're doing and are capable.

Lauren Varner: 11:06

And we were talking a little bit, too, about like feeling like you had to prove yourself and like people were critiquing you more than others, yep, and so part of our brand, part of the purpose behind our brand, is promoting authentic self-expression, because it challenges these ideologies, right so, for example, these ideologies, right so, for example, showing attorneys using more casual and like informal language on a billboard challenges this notion that you have to be like a stuck up, like pretentious asshole to be an attorney and to be taken seriously. Right? Or featuring me and like a female empowerment message on a billboard, that challenges this ideology that you have to be a man to be a bulldog, successful attorney who's taken seriously. So, yeah, I mean, we're, we're very intentional about the branding and how we can challenge social norms and social conditions to allow greater space and acceptance surrounding self-expression.

Melissa Snow: 12:27

Yeah, and let's be honest, this is not just a woman thing. Also, like I follow Eric, I see some of these outfits going on out in the world. Your husband is also all about authentic self-expression. So I mean we can, we could, we could be here all day going down the rabbit hole of the patriarchy and expectations on women and how other women perceive you and I'm. You know other women who are always looking to see you fail so they can be like oh see, I told you, but it's, it's really true on both genders, it's true on every side, right? Everybody has expectations of how they think that you should be, and I know that Eric I'm sure has had similar experiences with people who think he should be different than he is as well.

Lauren Varner: 13:13

Yeah, that's absolutely true. And you know, he the the purpose that I was speaking to behind our branding right, just increasing space and safety surrounding self-expression. He's really embraced that too. And what's what I?

Lauren Varner: 13:30

One of the things that I love about him so much is that and this is one of the reasons I fell in love with him is because he is like the opposite of toxic masculinity, right, like he wants to be vulnerable and he has like a soft side to him and he's not afraid to show that.

Lauren Varner: 13:49

I mean for men to really embrace that. I think that's the truest expression of masculinity. And so, yeah, he's very intentional about showing that. He's intentional about speaking to issues that are often like stigmatized for men and for society at large, things like mental health for men. He's been involved in campaigns for topics like that because, yeah, again, it's all about being really intentional with our choices in order to challenge these ideologies and these narratives, because those things are the framework for how we engage with each other in society and without people making those intentional choices and being aware of the consequences of those choices, you're often just engaging unknowingly or unwittingly and making choices that reinforce these problematic dynamics, and I just I feel called to do what I can in various ways, especially if it means just being me right it's pretty easy to change that.

Melissa Snow: 15:02

Yeah, yeah, I think a lot of times what I see in business and this manifests itself in a lot of different ways is we are so afraid to turn somebody off right, like I. To go back to your point about swearing like my mom used to listen to my podcast and she would be like I just don't understand why you have to swear so much, like, maybe just don't do that. And I was like mom, here's the thing, like that's how I talk. So if someone is listening to the podcast and they're like ew, I'm not listening to this because she said, fuck, they don't want to be involved with me, they don't want to hire me as a coach, they don't want to be in my community, they're not going to like it, and that's okay.

Melissa Snow: 15:42

There's someone out there who doesn't say fuck, and they're going to love them and it's going to be great. But I think it's hard. Sometimes we feel like we are going to miss out on opportunities or we're going to alienate people or there's not going to be enough clients that want to work with us, that we have to like, try to be palatable for everyone. And I think you have discovered, and Eric too, that by being more of yourselves you are still attracting people, but you're attracting the right people, like you're attracting the clients that you want to work with At least, I assume so.

Lauren Varner: 16:20

That's exactly right, yeah, and we've spoken about that in the legal community, because I mean, first things first. You can't please everyone, so why, like, why do we hold ourselves to that standard? Even try, right, and when you tone yourself down, dim yourself down for the reason that you said right, to make yourself more palatable, I think that you're interfering with your ability to build an authentic connection. Um, when we attend, you know, our continuing, continuing legal education seminars, all the time you hear these really successful attorneys talking about engaging with jurors during trial, and they talk about you know, if you are not your authentic self, they're going to see right through you, they're going to think you're a phony, think you're a phony. And when you aren't yourself, I think it's impossible to build an authentic relationship or connection with somebody, right? So I think there are multiple downsides to dimming yourself or altering yourself. And when you are yourself, you're exactly right.

Lauren Varner: 17:30

It calls in the right people, and one benefit of that, an additional benefit of that, is that it does away with this notion of competition. Right, like, we can be so hard on ourselves, like how do I beat the competition? And we're always comparing ourselves to other people, and you know, I mean, I experienced that sometimes when I'm spending too much time scrolling on social media and it's an uncomfortable feeling, but knowing that when you are you and if that involves cussing, you're going to find the other cussers out there who see you and just honor and respect your right to your sovereignty, your personal sovereignty and yeah, I mean those are the people. Those are the people I want to work with.

Melissa Snow: 18:19

Yeah, I love that. So I know you. I think you make it look easy. I know it's not easy all the time to show up as your authentic self and confidently, and I also know that you are human and that other humans be human in and I'm sure you've heard some things from people that weren't all that nice, and I'm just curious, like how do you push past the haters and stay confident?

Lauren Varner: 18:55

Hmm, I love that question because, to be completely honest and transparent, it's something that I that I'm still, I wouldn't say, struggling with, but coming to terms with because it is. It's hurtful. I mean, I can give you countless examples where you know people I look up to in the field um are offering negative feedback about this billboard or this photo or whatever, and like that's such a nice way to say it offering negative feedback.

Melissa Snow: 19:27

They're talking shit. It's fine, they're shit talking.

Lauren Varner: 19:30

And some of that has even come from, like, female mentors that I've really loved and respected and trusted, and it's really hurtful, but I've done a lot of work to try to recognize that the way and maybe it sounds cliche, but I really truly believe this the way that somebody responds is based on their framework, right, and that is not reflective of me.

Lauren Varner: 20:00

So there are certain people who have a framework based on their life experiences where they're going to look at something that I'm doing and they may say, oh, that's really courageous. Somebody else, with a different framework based on their life experiences, is going to say that's super disrespectful and slutty and whatever. Right, and I, while I don't appreciate it, I have to honor that. That's their experience. I still find it problematic because I think sometimes it's mean spirited, it's not necessary and it serves to reinforce those narratives that really disadvantage, for example, some of these women. Right, when you talk disparagingly about another woman in your field, it's problematic, but you just have their experience, as toxic as it may can be at times, right, yeah, we're all. We're all entitled to our own experience, experiences.

Melissa Snow: 21:12

Yeah, and remembering that it doesn't have to mean anything about you, it doesn't have to dictate your choices, it's. I mean, unfortunately, sometimes they are just as entitled to make their own choices as you are and they can do that. But, yeah, I like. I like what you're saying too, about just that empathy piece and being able to put yourself in their shoes as best you can and recognize like whatever is happening over there is really not about me. You know whether it is that you're triggering something in them where they are feeling deep down like gosh I wish I had the balls to be that myself. Or you know who knows, it's coming from something that has nothing to do with you, and I think that's a really important reminder.

Lauren Varner: 21:57

Exactly, yeah, and I mean just the example that we were talking about. Right, if I post a picture in like a sexy outfit, that that is intentional because I'm not going to, um, change my self-expression to conform to your arbitrary standard. And it's intentional because I want to open up space where you can be whatever profession or however you identify in this world, right, and wear whatever the fuck you want to wear. Um, but, yeah, I mean, where I've had mentors comment on those types of photos in a disparaging way, I am able to have empathy for the fact that you know they are, they're imposing that limitation on themselves.

Lauren Varner: 22:47

And how, how painful must that be? I mean, I know how painful that must be because I did it to myself when I was a baby lawyer and I thought that, no matter where I went, I had to wear a black suit, I couldn't show any cleavage, I had to have like a fricking turtleneck on my hair pulled back in a tight bun. Right, I've done that to myself. And when, when you're not in alignment with your truest self-expression, it is painful. So I can only imagine how that must feel for somebody to impose those kinds of restrictions on themselves. So, yeah, let them have their experience and I really hope that they can get to a place where they're able to overcome that and like, just be free you know, yeah, it feels much better.

Melissa Snow: 23:31

It's a lot less work too.

Lauren Varner: 23:33

So much right, that shit's just exhausting. It really really is.

Melissa Snow: 23:39

Yeah, Okay. So last question what message do you want to send to other women, whether they are in the field of law, they're in business, any other field who feel pressure to downplay their femininity in order to be respected?

Lauren Varner: 23:57

Yeah, I want us all to be intentional about beginning to reframe the associations that we have with characteristics that are traditionally seen as, or viewed as, feminine, right, because in our society, we have a tendency to assign strength and power and legitimacy to all of these qualities and characteristics that are traditionally more masculine, and that's just problematic for so many reasons, including that it imposes these unrealistic expectations on men, and so it's actually very harmful and damaging to them as well. But if we, as women, can see the way that we participate in that or we co-sign on that in a way that really precludes us from being in our feminine expression, I think that's how we start to shift it, right. Like, I mean, let's just talk about being in flow and creativity, right, and like the spaciousness around that. There is something inherently beautiful and powerful about that, and that's more of like a feminine characteristic, right.

Lauren Varner: 25:13

And if we can stop looking down on that, I just think that we're all going to feel so much more empowered if we can see the power in our femininity and the benefits that that can bring to the table, regardless of what type of work you're doing. I mean, let's just talk about being able to empathize with somebody, being able to connect with them, being able to offer them support. That's not something that is socialized into most men, right? That's not a characteristic that is typically fostered in them. I mean, like traditionally or throughout history. It's something that has been taught more to women because we're the caregivers, we're the nurturers. But just starting to shift how we perceive those qualities, I think is going to be so empowering and seeing them as benefits to us instead of weaknesses. So important.

Melissa Snow: 26:12

Yeah, that's really good. I feel like I could keep going with you forever, but I'm going to wrap it up. If people want to connect with you more if they're, they want to be inspired by you, if they want to know more about what your firm does, what are the best ways for them to connect with you?

Lauren Varner: 26:27

Yep, so you can reach out to us through our website, which is wwwvarnerfattiscom. Our social media is Varner fattest and we're on facebook, instagram, linkedin, tiktok threads, all the things, and um, yeah, my email is on my website as well, so anyone's welcome to give me a call or shoot me an email. I'd love to connect awesome.

Melissa Snow: 26:57

I will put those links in the show notes so everyone can reach out to you and thank you again for being you and for coming on this podcast and talking about some really important topics. I appreciate it. Well, back at you, thank you so much.