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Powerful Women Rising - A Business Podcast for Female Entrepreneurs
Welcome to Powerful Women Rising, the no-nonsense, laugh-out-loud podcast for heart-centered female entrepreneurs ready to make an impact (and a profit) while staying true to themselves!
Forget cookie-cutter, one size fits all advice. Each episode provides customizable advice and strategies to help you grow and scale your business - from leveraging authentic connections to mastering the art of marketing without feeling like a salesy weirdo. Plus, you'll hear insightful interviews with experts who shed light on those sneaky blind spots in your businessand dish out practical, no-BS advice for making more money in a way that feels good.
Tune in and transform the way you do business – because when women rise together, the sky's the limit!
Powerful Women Rising - A Business Podcast for Female Entrepreneurs
The Secrets of Effective Networking w/Matthew Pollard
Think you're bad at networking because you hate small talk and scripted elevator pitches? Think again.
In this episode, I’m joined by Matthew Pollard - author, speaker, and self-proclaimed Rapid Growth Guy - to discuss how to make networking easier and more effective by leaning into your natural strengths instead of trying to do things like everyone else.
Matthew breaks down a refreshingly strategic and human-centered approach to networking that’s tailor-made for introverts and extroverts alike.
In this conversation, we cover:
- How to ditch the elevator pitch and use a “unified message” to create curiosity and connection
- How storytelling makes your value crystal clear (without feeling salesy)
- Why trying to appeal to everyone actually waters down your impact
- Why you need both “momentum partners” and “champions” to succeed
- How to uniquely position yourself to build powerful, lasting business relationships
If traditional networking advice has ever made you want to hide in the bathroom - this episode is your permission slip to do things differently.
Links & References:
- Join us at our next PWR Virtual Speed Networking Event!
- For even deeper connections, check out the Powerful Women Rising Community!
- Connect with Matthew Pollard and learn more at https://matthewpollard.com or http://theintrovertsedge.com
Connect with Your Host!
Melissa Snow is a Business Relationship Strategist dedicated to empowering women in entrepreneurship. She founded the Powerful Women Rising Community, which provides female business owners with essential support and resources for business growth.
Melissa's other mission is to revolutionize networking, promoting authenticity and genuine connections over sleazy sales tactics. She runs an incredible monthly Virtual Speed Networking Event which you can attend once at no cost using the code FIRSTTIME
She lives in Colorado Springs with two girl dogs, two boy cats and any number of foster kittens. She loves iced coffee, Taylor Swift, and Threads.
Hello, Matthew, and welcome to the Powerful Woman Rising podcast.
Speaker 2:I'm ecstatic to be here. Thank you so much for having me on.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'm so excited to have you. It's funny. I was just looking through. I just discovered on Instagram that there's an archive where you can see all your old stories. I just discovered this last night, after many years on Instagram, and I was looking at some of my old stories and I saw one that I had screenshotted. That was a DM that I'd sent to you and a DM that I'd sent to Joe Polish, and I put something on there about, like not me over here, surprised that neither of these icons have responded to my DM, and I was like, wow, how things have changed, because you did respond and you agreed to come on the podcast and I was so excited, so thank you for being here.
Speaker 2:My absolute pleasure and you know it's interesting. I used to personally respond to every message. I mean, the trouble is, I guess and I feel like I still do my best to respond to everyone I can. But you know, with my book selling over 100,000 copies, I get messages from so many places, which is amazing to see. I mean, I try to never get into the negative hype or the positive hype, but the fact is that there are so many introverts now that don't see themselves as second-class citizens, and I'm on it every day, especially for a person we were talking just before this about how I never should have written these books, with my reading speed issues and things like that, and to see how much of an impact it's made on people's lives.
Speaker 2:It's just, it's my it's. I'm just really pleased. And for those people that read my book and send me comments, I do my best to respond to every one of you, but please know I'm so grateful to get them every time that I do get them. So thank you very much for those that have already sent them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely so. For people who are not familiar with you although if they're listening to this podcast they probably are, because they've heard me talk about your book many times Tell everybody just a little bit about you and what you do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and I was honored to hear that my work had had such an impact on you before the show, so that's amazing For me. I spent my life helping introverts realize they're not second class citizens. Their path to success is just different to that of an extrovert. And if they try to become an extrovert, that's actually a really uncomfortable thing to do because you'll feel transactional, you'll go home and you'll ruminate if you're doing things like networking, and for me, what I've found is that introverts have our own strengths. When we learn to embrace those, we really can have the edge in sales, in networking, in public speaking, in running our own businesses.
Speaker 2:And truthfully, what I find and I love seeing this I love seeing an entrepreneur, specifically a service provider, with enough talent, skill and belief in themselves to start a business of their own. But what I find more often than not is they get stuck in this endless hamster wheel of struggling to find interest in people, trying to set themselves apart, trying to make the sale, feeling like people only care about one thing price. And I think we were talking about this as well before we went on, by the way two introverts planning and preparing what they were going to talk to on a podcast. What a surprise. But so many people will then say, oh, I'm just going to put on a funnel, I'm just going to do this, and none of these things work or they get really expensive and it ends up making people feel like they've got to take a photo of their dog or their donut just to have something to say on Instagram.
Speaker 2:And the truth is, I guess that's right. If you want to focus on being the loudest, I focus on helping people become the clearest, because my mission is really to help these people realize they really can have a rapid growth business doing what they love. Just not by getting better at their functional skill, because they're probably amazing at that, and not by focusing on all these tactics, because if you don't know how to articulate what you do when somebody's politely listening to you in a networking room in a way that somebody leans forward and goes, oh my gosh, I need that or tell me more, you've got no business being online. And even when you are ready to move online, well, you just have to understand that the average person, if you can't do it face-to-face, you're definitely not going to be able to do it online. And that's why you see so many people teaching you all these methods that become full-time jobs.
Speaker 2:So I think for my background and I'm sure we'll talk about that in more detail but I went from a reading speed of a sixth grader not knowing what I wanted to do in my life to being responsible for five multimillion dollar success stories, and when I moved to the United States I made the decision that I wanted to really dedicate my life to helping other introverts realize that they really could. But they need to focus a little bit of their time on authentically articulating what it is that they do in a way that is much more systematic and process-driven, just like any other part of their business, which, truthfully, if you're an extrovert listening I mean if you ever want to sell your business, if you're the primary salesperson, your business is not sellable. So even you should be considering creating a system. But for us introverts, we absolutely need it, because without that we're kind of terrible at those, I'm going to say, so-called extroverted arenas, because I believe we introverts dominate in all of them, as long as we stop trying to copy the extroverts.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely. I want to go back to something that you said in the beginning of that answer, which was about trying to force yourself to be an extrovert, and this is something we were talking about before we started recording too, and I think one of the reasons that I resonated so much with your book and what you do is I was really at the time that I found your book was really in a space of I'd spent so much time and money and energy trying to force myself to do it a certain way. Right, there's one way to grow your business, according to Susie, the expert who you paid $10,000 to, so she better be right, and I'm trying to do it the way that she says to do it, and it's not working for me and it's working for all of these other people. And so then I'm like well, what the heck is wrong with me? Well, nothing's wrong with me, necessarily, but I am an introvert, I do have ADHD, I am not a morning person.
Speaker 1:Like there's all of these things that we think or at least I thought in the beginning was like mandatory qualities of a successful entrepreneur. Right, you have to be A, b, c and D, and I wasn't any of those things and I was trying so hard to force myself to be those things, and what really made a huge difference in my success and your book was a part of this was realizing there are actually a lot of ways to do it, and one way is not necessarily better than the other, but there is a way that is better for me to do it. And one way is not necessarily better than the other, but there is a way that is better for me to do it. And so can you talk a little bit about? When it comes to networking, specifically for business owners, how do we find the way that is best for us?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I think for most introverts they. And let's talk about what the common ideology is, because it's terrible. I actually have a presentation called the Death of the Elevator Pitch, because I find that the whole concept like, if I believe and I learned a lot of, I mean, after 93 doors of rejection, finding YouTube videos that showed me that sales was a system, and then going to work learning that system when I moved to the United States, I really had to start again. I mean, I spent a lifetime awkwardly fostering a network in Australia, but when I came here, I wanted to do something different and also I didn't know a soul, and what I found is that the best education that I could find on networking was to do an elevator pitch.
Speaker 2:Now, for those people that don't know what I'm talking about by that, it's I do this for this group of people, even if it's the most transactional, icky, contrived thing you could possibly ever say, which is why no introvert ever does that. So now, don't get me wrong A lot of extroverts and the occasional introvert will do it, and it's like them walking around going do you want to buy from me? No, what about you? What about you? It feels uncomfortable, which is why most people do what I call aimless networking, which is where they walk around and having these really shallow conversations especially we introverts, because we feel uncomfortable with small talk. But then when somebody asks us what we do, because it feels so transactional, again we kind of say, well, my day job is this, and who wants to buy off someone? That kind of structures their dialogue like this. So there are two things that I recommend that people need. Well, I recommend we first need to recognize that, while a prospect being in that room is helpful because, especially if we're trying to keep the lights onto our business, that's absolutely vital but the truth is the key out of the hamster wheel, and my whole framing is I want to show people how to master the networking room so they never have to go back to one.
Speaker 2:And I know, melissa we were talking about this offline that people think you and I are going to networking events all the time and we're not. The fact is we've built our network to a point where networks chase us, and how that happened is in the process of networking. We discovered what I call momentum partners and champions. Momentum partners are the people that believe and are inspired by your work and, by the way, that's not going to happen if you're using an elevator pitch and believe in your work enough that they're going to introduce you to people, open doors for you, whether it's a podcast interview, an introduction to an association, something that's meaningful to you. Now the thing I will say is a good momentum partnership isn't transactional. It's not like a balance sheet where I say, melissa, I gave you those three introductions, so I'm expecting three more by the end of close of business today. How stressful that must be. It's a balanced belief in each other. So I would do that for you, you would do that for me. And then you've got the group of champions, and champions are the people. They're the reason why you get to get paid well for what you do. For instance, ivan Meisen, the founder of BNI, the world's largest networking group in the world, has endorsed my work. There are so many other amazing people that have endorsed my work and because of that, my work has a lot more credibility and therefore I'm able to charge more. Now. Ivan's also had me on his podcast. I've spoke at the National Convention for BNI and all of these other events, thanks to a lot of champions and momentum partners that have given my work credibility and opened doors for me.
Speaker 2:So, really, when I go networking, a relief for an introvert is learning. They don't actually need to go in, even looking for clients, which removes the transactional nature altogether. The next thing is, though, that I find that a lot of introverts they feel like their job which feels terrible is to explain what they do. How does that not sound transactional? And the elevator pitch, if you're going to explain what you do, is about the best you get.
Speaker 2:For me, I believe that people don't care what you do until they see that you care. So I look at expressing networking from a place of genuine care for a difference I want to make in the world. So if I followed a general elevator pitch, it would be something. Like you know, I help introverted service providers obtain more closed business, even if they think they're terrible at sales something horrible like that. But for me, when I'm asked what I do in a networking room, well, firstly, I lead with what I call a unified message, and the reason I do this is because if I say I'm a sales trainer, everybody looks at me like I'm one step above a scam artist.
Speaker 1:So that is not a great direction.
Speaker 2:But if I say I'm in marketing, somebody says, oh, that's great, I need marketing, how much do you cost? Now, I'm talking about price, I just met them. Or they say, oh, I've already got help in marketing. And now I'm like, oh, I'm different, I've got magic ruby slippers. None of that works.
Speaker 2:So what I do is I use what's called a unified message, which is a one, two or three-word statement that doesn't fit anyone else but me and fits me very authentically. For instance, I call myself the rapid growth guy. That breaks somebody's brain, usually because I am being interested before I try to be interesting. And then people need to solve puzzles, to work out what it is first, before they include it or exclude it from what they actually want or need. And our brain must solve the puzzles. So because of that, they say what exactly is that? And I can then respond with thanks for asking.
Speaker 2:One of the things I love to see more than anything in the world is amazing, introverted service provider with enough talent, skill and belief in themselves to start a business that won't. You heard me say it the moment I got on this podcast, but what I find is and I just hate seeing it and then I explain the other piece, and that's why I'm on a mission too, of course. I say in between that dialogue is. The difference is I didn't even tell you what I do. I didn't mention sales training. I didn't mention marketing coaching, nothing at all.
Speaker 2:All I did was express my genuine care and interest in serving the world in a certain way, and when they highlight, they are like that, and then I articulate my mission. I can then move into a story of someone just like them that wanted what they wanted and how I got them to an amazing result. Now, when I say a story, I do not mean a testimonial or a case study. Those are humble brags and you're going to feel terrible saying those. I mean stories that actually motivate and inspire people to take action. That's in their best interest, whether they use you or not. Hopefully they believe they can do it themselves, but maybe they want to use you anyway because you inspire them to do so. So everything that I see networking, as is this non-transactional, non-one-sided sales pitch. It's a genuine connection where I get to share what I care about and what I care about is serving them.
Speaker 1:I love all of that. I feel like that was like 10 different podcast episodes that we could do. I don't even know where to go with this. So I wanna ask you a question, because I actually just posted something about this on Instagram last night. When you talk about this one, two or three word phrase that you use, how do you?
Speaker 1:One of the things that I say a lot when it comes to introducing yourself at networking events is that being clear is better than being clever, because I always see people get up and they think that they're being very like, mysterious and intriguing and look at me, I'm different than all the other people who sell skincare, because I said that I help people age backwards, right, or something like that. And I'm like now everyone's very confused. They don't know what you do, like do you sell hormone replacement therapy? Do you do Botox? Like how are you helping me age backwards? So how do you make sure that that phrase that you're using is still attention getting and conveys what you want it to, but isn't so like vague and broad and confusing that people are like that guy's weird, I don't even want to talk to him.
Speaker 2:I think one of the biggest mistakes that people make is they hear unified message and they think slogan, and a slogan is not what I'm talking about. So if you had never heard of a business coach before, the first time you heard somebody say I'm a business coach, you would say what exactly is that? What I'm highlighting is you need to create a version of I'm a business coach for you. Like I say I'm the rapid growth guy Not a slogan, but something that leads people to say what exactly is that? And the reason being is I'm not trying to be vague to get people to lean in and say what is that, so I can then talk to them about the functional of what I do. Get people to lean in and say what is that, so I can then talk to them about the functional of what I do. What I'm trying to do is highlight that I'm different to everybody else and I want everybody to really internalize that you are different. Now it's funny the number of people that come up to me after one of my presentations from stage and say but Matt, I'm not different. I'm exactly like everyone else. I do the same services. I'm like you've got unique past experiences, unique past customers unique upbringing. You've read different books, you failed different tests that caused you to do different things. That is just not true and, by the way, anybody questioning this? Here's what I want you to think about for a second. Imagine if I said oh guys, I really want to introduce you to Melissa. She does everything exactly like everyone else. Think about how many people I would get referred or even be open to those introductions. So how many people I would get referred or even be open to those introductions. So if you've ever got a referral, if you've ever got repeat business, then you need to know there is something different. If you don't know what that is, then you need to call your customers. By the way, your customers know that they're paying you a premium. They could get it cheaper. So don't be afraid to say and, by the way, don't be afraid to blame me and say I'm working with a coach and they told me that there's something unique and different about what I do. And they told me to think about my best customers and, by the way, that's you. So, firstly, thank you for that, appreciate them and then say but what I need to understand is, what is it about what I do that you provide that? I provide that, you see, you know, as a great service. You know, why is it that you write me such great testimonials? Or why is it you refer me to people and I promise you that people will say you provide amazing customer service and you're really knowledgeable? By the way, those two answers are not useful, and the reason why they're not useful is nobody's going to say oh, you should hire me, melissa, I am the world's worst at customer service and I really don't know much, so because of that, we can't use them. So what you need to do is appreciate them for saying that and saying thank you so much for sharing that. What, specifically about my knowledgeability have you found most useful? And then, all of a sudden, you'll get a treasure trove of information. It's actually funny.
Speaker 2:I worked with a language coach out of California and she taught kids and adults Mandarin, and for the longest time she charged $50 to $80 an hour for private consultation, and she was very successful for quite a while about a decade and then, all of a sudden, she started to have other people moving into California willing to charge $30 to $40 an hour. On top of that, she had people out of China offering to do it for $12 an hour on Craigslist, thanks to this global economy we now live in. And, worse than that, she actually had people that well, there was technology made in Silicon Valley that basically I'll teach you Ben or you teach me English. We just won't charge anyone anything. So she's competing against free. So she comes to me and she's like give me some sales techniques, some networking techniques to help me close more clients and keep the current clients. And I said, look, let's just avoid the battle altogether. We need to look at what makes you different. And again, nothing's different about me. So we had to go and then assess the clients. What we discovered was there were two clients out of a hundred she'd worked with that were executives being relocated to China.
Speaker 2:And what we found is she did so much more for these people than just language tuition. She helped them understand the difference between e-commerce in China and the Western world, the importance of respect, why you have to learn the language. You can't just sorry, you have to learn the accent, you can't just you learn the language. How to handle a business card while it matters, so why it matters so much and, what was most important, she helped them understand the difference between a sale in the Western world where, at the end of 45 minutes, if we're bad at sales, we'll say something horrible like do you want to move forward? And of course, yes, no, or everyone's favorite, let me think about it right. Well, in China they're going to want to see you five or six times before they discuss business. They're probably going to want to see you drunk over karaoke once or twice. For the average Westerner, that's confusing, until you realize that they're doing 25 to 50-year deals, not transactional contracts like we do in the West. So she helped them understand this and I said Wendy, you're doing so much more for these people than just language tuition. What are you doing? And she's like well, there's a few things I'm just trying to help. And I said look, you're stuck in your functional skill. Is it fair to assume, as a result of the assistance you're giving these people, they're going to be more successful in China? And she's like I mean, yeah, I mean, that's the point right.
Speaker 2:So I said well, about Mandarin education for a second, let's create what we ended up calling the China Success Intensive, which ended up being a five-week program that worked, with the executive, the spouse and any children being relocated across to China. Now, what she loved about this was it was a totally different proposition. It was based on what was more authentic to her. Anyway, and think about it, instead of going networking. Well, she actually asked me she goes, who do I sell it to? And I said, who do you think? And she obviously went for the first and easy answer the executives. And I said, well, I mean, I moved from Australia to the United States. They speak the same language here. I'd still be terrified. I was still terrified coming, imagine going, to China. I just don't think it's your ideal client and she's frustrated with me now.
Speaker 2:She's like well, who, then? And I said I think it's the immigration attorney. Now she looks at me like I'm speaking a foreign language and I said think about it. These people make $5,000 to $7,000 for doing all the bureaucracy and the paperwork that comes with a visa. They got staff to pay for, they got rent to pay for, they got paid to get the client. A lot of the times They'd be lucky to make $3,000 for a successful visa.
Speaker 2:I said why not offer them $3,000 for a successful introduction? So, instead of networking like crazy, trying to sell something transactional that everyone else was doing, she was going to networking events to meet immigration attorneys. It's a totally different marketplace and this is what I find. People try to bend themselves to all their customers as opposed to saying what's more innate about me, and how can I articulate that? Well, and so she started going in introducing herself as the China Success Coach, talking about her passion and mission, and then offering them $3,000 for a simple introduction. They're like double my profit for a simple introduction. Sure, what have I got to say? She said all you got to do is say congratulations, you've now got your visa. I just want to double check. You're as ready as possible to go, and they would always respond with. You know, a bit of bravado. I think we're fine. We've got a place sorted now. We're learning the language. Kids are getting pretty good at it too. You know, we've got our visa now. Thank you, I think we're set, and she would just have them respond with. There's a lot more to it than that.
Speaker 2:I organization was motivated to pay. Recommended by their attorney, she charged $30,000 for doing this. So after the $3,000 commission check, she made $27,000 for the easiest sale in the world, instead of hustling every day to make $50 to $80 an hour in a highly contested market. What I find is well, I get to do the exact same thing, right by calling myself the rapid growth guy. People don't put me in a sales box where they think I'm scammy. They don't put me in a marketing box where they think I do Facebook ads, which I don't. And people put me in this box of what's the rapid growth guy? And, for the first time, instead of shoving something down someone's throat they didn't ask for, they genuinely ask. And as soon as I learn to articulate that successfully, I can then do that online, not by taking photos of my dog or donut for something to say. But because my message is so concise, it breaks through the noise, which means I don't have to work very hard to get people to chase me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so essentially what you're saying, I love what you said about how that phrase is different than a motto or a slogan. Right, that's a big difference. And then also having that clarity on what your unique passion is, what your unique mission is. One of the things that I hear you say a lot is, you know, focusing on what is your value and, when you introduce yourself, not necessarily telling people like, hi, I'm mad, this is what I do, but this is the value of what I do, which I think is a big distinction too yeah, I think that the thing that I say I firstly, I never want to tell people what I do because, firstly, people don't care.
Speaker 2:The second thing is, if I say here's why you should value what I do, people have to agree or disagree with that, and that's a logical mind process and that's a problem. Also, people want to know that I care about them. That's it. So if you think about Wendy, she wants to convey her passion and mission to help people going to China. For me, I want to convey my mission and passion for helping introverts. So what I look at is I use a unified message I'm the rapid growth guy to trigger someone to say what exactly is that? And, by the way, the rapid growth guy is inherently me, more than sales trainer or marketing coach could ever be. I mean, I'm a business coach, I'm a branding expert, social media strategist, a master in neurolinguistic programming. I'm a business so many things. Truthfully, the only thing I know is that people don't care about any of that. They don't care how hard it was for me to learn those things or how long it took me to learn them, but when I say the rapid growth guy, it gets me heard in the crowded marketplace. It gets people to say what exactly is that? Because they're genuinely interested and I feel genuine saying it, because it articulates who I am better than I ever could in any other way by using a functional jargon word that they know because they anchor to it, and they're like oh, that's all you are. That's like reading the introvert's edge and saying I'm the introvert's edge person. That's ridiculous. So once I've said that, then they ask me what exactly that is, and I will then respond with my passion and mission to help them. I'm not telling them what I do or even the results I get. I'm just telling them that I want them to know that I care and I understand where they're struggling. I want to show them that I know them well. That's why I'm on their side. And then, once I say, well, I'm on a mission to help people like you, realize you really can obtain rapid growth doing what you love, just not by getting better at your functional skill. Instead, three things outside the scope of that that really allow you to obtain rapid growth in a business that revolves around you, your family and your life, not the other way around.
Speaker 2:I will then segue into a story, the exact story I use in a shorter version, is the Wendy story, but notice the difference. That's not a testimonial. I'm actually telling you a story to share with you the power of what I call a unified message. Now, of course, the undertone of it is a testimonial, but people don't see it Like I could have said so. Wendy came to me and she didn't have any clients and I helped her create a whole new product and we went from struggling to make $50 to $80 an hour to selling a $30,000 product and that's why you need to hire me. How horrible. Instead, I said look, what I think you need is a unified message. Let me explain what that is. And then I explain it and at the end I say so.
Speaker 2:What I really think you need to think about is what are the unique benefits that you provide outside the scope of your functional skill? And then ask yourself what the high-level benefit of that is. For Wendy it was rapport, respect and e-commerce. The high-level benefit is China's success. For me, I'm X, y and Z. Nobody cares. That's why I call myself the rapid growth guy. Does that make sense? And I nod my head as I say it and they're like oh yeah, thank you so much for sharing that value with me.
Speaker 2:Of course, they also heard a testimonial. Now here's the reason why I tell a story. Now, testimonials don't do this. Case studies don't do this. Throw those out. You shouldn't be using them with customers and I know that's going to be against everything you've ever heard before but especially an introvert, we are not going to want to say those things.
Speaker 2:Here's the thing about storytelling. When you tell a story, first thing is it activates the reticular activating system of a person's brain. What that means is it actually creates artificial rapport. And now we introverts are terrible at creating initial rapport, but we're great at fostering deep rapport. So I use storytelling as a way of generating that initial rapport, because I hate small talk. Now, the great thing about this is extroverts are great at doing that initial rapport. They're terrible at deep rapport, and storytelling actually fosters deeper rapport than even that superficial small talk does. The second thing about storytelling which is great is people remember up to 22 times more information when embedded into a story. So when I'm trying to share the story of Wendy, I know they're actually going to remember it, as opposed to saying, oh, you need a unified message, and here are all the logical reasons for why and we introverts love educating customers and when we tell a story we're trying to be mindful of someone's time, so we glide through it, but then we are happy to hit them with jargon for the next 20 minutes. It's insane. So what we need to do is realize people love stories, they remember stories.
Speaker 2:And, by the way, for those people that don't believe me, think about three inanimate objects. I don't believe me. Think about three inanimate objects, I don't know. Let's go with. Everybody's probably sitting down in a chair right now, so let's go with chairs. Probably people think I have an English accent, so I'm actually from Australia. But if let's go with a good English breakfast, like porridge, and then let's pick a third thing, well, maybe after hearing me speak as an introvert, you're probably going to be maxed out. We might want to go and rest for a little bit in bed, so let's go with beds. If I said, remember those three items. A year from now I'm going to reach back out to you and ask you what those items are and the order I told you them in. Probably when you're in the middle of something, when I do this from stage, everyone's like I'm not going to have a chance remembering it and I'm like I tell you what I'll help Think about the story of Goldilocks and the three bears.
Speaker 2:Everybody has instant recall so so people remember more when embedded into a story. But the most important thing is, when you tell a story it short circuits the logical brain and you speak directly the emotional brain, so the logical brain assumes all the detail is fact. So sorry, the logical brain is the part of the brain that's saying that'll work for me. That won't work for me. My situation is different. Hang up the phone or let me interrupt.
Speaker 2:When you start telling a story, the emotional brain literally short circuits the logical brain and it goes story time and it just listens to every part of the story, assuming that it's factual duty of care here, only real stories, please. And then, when you get to the end of the story, if the moral of the story is so, as you can see, this person had that same problem you did. And this epiphany, this thing that they they were to discover and I always like to say they discovered it People are going to assume you helped them, do it, allowed them to get to this result, so that's why they should do that thing. People are like, oh my gosh, I want that. And because you've told it in the story, it's been tangible. It's like they tried it on.
Speaker 2:Now they don't want to give it back and that's why they lean forward and they're like well, what does working with you look like Again? Only if it's a prospect, right. What we're really hoping for is a momentum partner and a champion. But let me be clear when they say that if you answer that question in that networking room, you've just done the worst thing possible because A they're going to resent you answering it. You will get interrupted and you are going to feel terrible about pitching somebody in the middle of a networking room. So don't do it. We all have phones in our pockets these days and tell them now's not really a great time to do that. Pull out your phone and schedule a time to do a Zoom session or catch up for a coffee. But if you think about networking as that way, the only time you tell people what you do is in the story, and the story gets them to try it on, not get educated, which is why they'll engage with it. More importantly, they'll understand the impressive value of what you provide.
Speaker 1:And again, you all provide unique, impressive value. Yeah, and what you're talking about, too, is a lot of the balance between being authentic while you're networking, but also being intentional about it, and that's something I talk about a lot, because I think people get really good at the authenticity which they take ads like I'll just show up and be me, like I don't have a plan, I'll just talk and do what I want and be me. And then intentionality we think that's when we get into the what I call the salesy weirdos, right Like that, because we're there with an agenda and we're there with a plan and we're our goal is to get 10 business cards tonight, or our goal is to set up two coffee chats after this and there's a balance between being authentic, being real, being yourself and also having some intention behind what you're doing in networking too, and I think that's exactly what you're talking about when it comes to how you're talking to people, about what you do and how you help people is finding that balance between the two.
Speaker 2:I think one of the things and I want to go back to that intentionality because I think that's a really important comment. So, firstly, a lot of people will say, well, but I don't know who I'm talking to and because of that I can't say like, for instance, if I walked up to somebody and they said I'm passionate about helping an introverted service provider, and they're like, oh, I work for a global hardware company. Well, what am I going to do with you now? Right, so now I've got a problem? Well, actually I don't, Because my bet is, if I share my passion and mission for servicing introverted service providers, they have a friend or a family member that is an introverted service provider.
Speaker 2:The second thing is that I can't articulate my passion and mission for servicing everyone in general because it's too general a statement. So the problem is that by going broad, I'm speaking to nobody. So what I do is I talk about my passion for helping introverted service providers and the number of times somebody says I actually work for X, y and Z billion-dollar cloud company. We're not service providers, but I love your passion and I'd love to introduce you to so-and-so, because nobody's passionate in networking rooms. They're all so vanilla. So the moment they experience passion, they're like oh my gosh, I want to steal this for myself. Now let's talk about preparation, because for me, I always plan what I'm going to say and I say the same thing every time, but to the person that I'm talking to, it sounds like an authentic and organic conversation, mainly because and, by the way, I get that most people have had phone calls from telemarketers that sound script and they don't want to sound that way. But think about your favorite movie. Think about the character in that movie, your favorite character. Realize they're also reading a script. The difference between those two people is just practice. However, there's one thing you can do differently, and that is, I never go to a networking room in a way that feels anything else but a bunch of preset meetings. What do I mean by that? Well, the truth is, if you don't do this, you might end up walking up to someone that's going to try and sell you insurance. Now, that would be a good thing for me, because I work with a whole bunch of people in insurance, because the last thing they want to do is say they sell insurance, because people look at them even worse than a salesperson. How do I get away from this person? Their eyes explode. So they definitely need unified messages and to speak from passion and mission, but the best way to plan is to actually plan who you're going to speak to, and in today's digitally connected world, any event, like a conference, usually has a conference app where all the people in attendance are going to be on it. If you're talking about a meetup group, well, usually people connect with their Facebook or their LinkedIn and because of that, you can find out who's going in advance. If you can't find it through that, look at the last month's event, look at the photo of the people that were in the event when they did a couple of photos and look for who was tagged in the photos and then connect with those.
Speaker 2:I don't go to a networking event unless my team do what I call profile shopping. So whenever I go to a networking event, they'll figure out what event I'm going to go to. They'll then figure out who's going to be there. They'll then put them in the momentum partner, the champion or the prospect box. They will then connect with them in advance and say something like oh, I'm thinking about going to this networking event and I'm really passionate about X, is this a good place to come to? And as a byproduct of that, they're like yeah, oh, absolutely, you should totally come Now.
Speaker 2:If they're extroverted, they're like well, you know what, I'll introduce you to a whole bunch of people. If they're an introvert, they're like oh, thank goodness, I'm going to be. It's a familiar face the moment I walk into that room. Often I don't have time to meet anybody outside the square because I've already got people that are expecting to talk to me and, as a by-product, they're not only expecting to talk to me. They've probably already seen a whole bunch of my stuff and, as a by-product, I don't even have to work very hard. So being contrived about who to speak to means that you can make sure you're always having the right conversations with the right people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, having the right conversations with the right people. That doesn't mean the conversation is inauthentic.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. As a matter of fact, it's even more authentic. I'll give you an example. I did some work with Intel and this guy came up to me afterwards and he said well, we basically spoke for like 20 minutes and this was back at the hotel. This introvert just realized that aloft doesn't have room service. And the introvert likes to hide away after his sessions because if, especially if, I'm speaking at the event at the conference hotel, I'm like there's nowhere to go. And this was before uber eats at the time and I was like you know what? There's nowhere for me to go here. I'm gonna going to have to go downstairs. Well, of course, I got talking to somebody and for 20 minutes we chatted and conversed and he said look, matt, it's easy for me to speak to you because I saw you speak, so I've got so much context to talk to you about. And I was like I'm confused and from what I know about Intel, you're considered a newbie if you've been there for less than 20 years. Now I'm speaking at the global leadership event.
Speaker 2:I would assume that most of the people there were there last year. I would also assume that internally you could get the attendance list and they're like well, I mean, yeah, I could have, but what would I do with that? And I'm like I would look up everybody on LinkedIn, figure out what their job titles are, which ones of those I mean you probably have the job titles on the sheet I would figure out what they're into. I would think about what value I could add each person. Maybe there's an introduction to an association, maybe they should be on a podcast because they also have a personal brand on something. I would be looking at what books they read and maybe I've read some of those books and I could then you know when I'm trying to help them.
Speaker 1:I was like oh, I noticed that you read X book.
Speaker 2:Have you read this book as well, because I feel like they dovetail really well, or oh, when I connected with you on LinkedIn, I was thinking about this person. That I felt like would be a really good introduction for you.
Speaker 1:Now they're like oh, my gosh.
Speaker 2:I don't even know who you are, but I'm so glad we connected in advance and thank you for offering what is it you do? The answer is they're going to want to help you in every way, shape or form. So the thing that I find is what often leads to inauthentic marketing or inauthentic networking because it's basically the same thing is that people don't think about how to best show up, because for me, I don't want to wing things every time, I don't want to bend myself to someone else's needs and wants, because that's inauthentic. I want to genuinely say here is the people I show up for every day. I want to genuinely tell a story that is actually helpful to them. And before I get to any of that, I want to genuinely offer introductions and suggestions and value to that other person. And for those people that are like well, I'm not like you. I don't have millions of people in my network and all these high-level people to introduce to, I bet if everybody went and connected with everybody they knew on LinkedIn or went and surveyed the people that they knew on LinkedIn, you'd quickly realize you've got a whole bunch of friends with podcasts and everybody wants a great guest on their podcast that isn't going to sell the audience but actually deliver something of value. Everybody's looking for the right type of guests, not the hundred spam messages that we get all the time.
Speaker 2:Usually, you know people that are on association boards. What usually happens is people haven't mapped their network, so they have nothing of value to offer the person they're speaking to. That's just laziness. So what you need to do is you need to map your network. You need to think about the people that you can offer introductions to that are also helpful to them, right, and then you can go and have these fruitful conversations where you genuinely are not saying a contrived script, but presenting the best version of yourself, a planned and prepared one, sure, but you're customizing it to their unique situation only slightly, because you don't want to change who you are for anyone, because that is inauthentic and just so everyone's aware.
Speaker 2:If this sounds like a lot of work, it's a lot more work to go to a whole bunch of networking events where nobody I mean sure, you walk out with 10 cards, but we all know what we do with those 10 cards.
Speaker 2:We stack them on the desk next to the last 10 cards that didn't call or we had no contact with. It's a lot more work to go out and do proposals for people that don't buy. And if you're talking about mental anxiety, stress, it's a lot more work to go to a networking room and not know who's going to be in there, and the emotional recovery of that is a lot more effort than what going to a meetup page and seeing who's going in advance and go that person, that person and that person it's going to fit the networking events to run into them by chance, if you're lucky, as opposed to going wow, these three people's profiles look interesting. I'll connect with them in advance. And oh, by the way, don't be afraid to say that you're introverted when you're in conversation, when you're talking to them, because if they say, yes, me too, you just got a buddy for life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I think a perk of doing that preparation too is and this is something I hear a lot from the introverts that I work with is, too is and this is something I hear a lot from the introverts that I work with is how do I skip the small talk? How do I not have to have small talk with people when I'm networking, but not jump straight to the life? So tell me about, like, the biggest trauma of your life, right, like we need to feel like we can be somewhere in between, and when you have done that preparation, work and you know that stuff, I think it makes it easier to skip a lot of that small talk, because I don't need to ask you like, oh, are you married? Do you have kids? Where are you from Colorado? Like, clearly you're not from Colorado, but are you from Colorado? What do you do? You know? How long have you been in business? I already know all those things.
Speaker 1:So we can skip that and get to like why are you passionate about what you do, what you know? What do you value most? What's your mission with your business? And things like that that allow us to get to know each other on a different level.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I mean, everybody wants to talk about themselves in a non-superficial way and everybody hates the superficial stuff and they appreciate you sharing in a different way and having different conversations with them. I mean, there's no one that's going to say they don't want to do that. And I know we need to save time for talking about what introversion is, because that's important. But one thing I do want to highlight is when you control a networking dialogue, because a lot of people say, oh, I don't actually tell people what I do. Like when they ask me what I do, I start asking them questions. Oh, that's great, everybody wants an interrogation when they first meet you. You've got to realize that you have to open the door to these more important dialogues. And what's really interesting is what I find is the moment you use a unit, give value, give introductions, even just listening and being excited for them and providing them suggestions that may not even land for them. They will go, wow, this is different. And then when they ask you what you do, when they feel your passion and mission not your feature and function or sales pitch and then they hear through the story something that actually applies to them, they'll tell you anything you want to know. The thing that you need to realize, though, is you don't need to know any of that. If you know your niche and they've responded, you should know all the answers already, because, I mean, I know my niche better than they know themselves, which means that if I say now, I appreciate you want to talk further about what I do. We're all at networking event right now. I feel like we're all trying to meet new people, and also, I really want to understand a little bit more about what you do before I suggest that I may or may not be able to help you. So why don't we set you know, we've all got our phones with us why don't we set a calendar invitation? I'll organize a Zoom call with you and I set it right there, and then, because I want to ask those deep and penetrating questions, but I want to do it when I'm sitting with them one-on-one, where they feel a little bit more comfortable they have decided that they like me, so I can ask those questions, or I can just leave it at that.
Speaker 2:Now, one of the things that I will say is, once I've booked that calendar invitation is, I will often say to them look, melissa, I have to admit I'm loving this conversation and, as an introvert myself, it's far easier for me to continue talking to you than talking to everyone going to talk to someone else. But I have to admit I know you're probably at a networking event to meet people the same as I am, so don't feel obligated to hang with me, and we've got a wonderful conversation coming up, so feel free. If there's other people you want to meet, you're welcome to do so. One of two things will happen They'll go.
Speaker 2:No, matthew, I'm actually really enjoying this conversation, and that happens all the time. By the way, I'm an introvert too, so this feels great. And then later I'll make a joke about how we have to both push ourselves to go and talk to new people. And now I'm doing them a favor and me a favor, or they'll say you know what? That's actually great, because they don't want a sales pitch right now, but they did ask for one later. That's amazing. So move on.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's so good. That's really really good. So you reminded me a question I probably should have asked you at the beginning of this podcast, but we'll ask it at the end when we're talking about introverts and I think it's okay that we're talking about this at the end because really everything that we've talked about is applicable to introverts and extroverts it's really just relationship building and meeting people and communicating in a way that feels good to them and to you. But just for clarification's sake, when we're talking about someone being an introvert, I think a lot of times people think you know we were talking before we started recording that people are always like no, you're not an introvert. Well, I'm not shy, but those aren't the same things. So tell us, when you're talking about introverts, what you're really talking about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and it's interesting because a lot of extroverts that are selling themselves for the first time feel uncomfortable the same way as a lot of introverts do when they're talking to people. So there is a lot of crossover and it's easy to get confused.
Speaker 2:I think it's even easier to get confused because I feel a lot of the studies and the research has tried to make it more confusing, maybe so they get more grants, who knows. But the thing that I would say is most people I mean, it's so weird some of the behaviors people have.
Speaker 2:They're like oh, I'm not introverted and they frame it in a way that, like we introverts just sit under a bridge hiding, hoping not to tell anybody. And I actually did an event at AISP Leadership Summit. This is the best in the business, in the world of sales. You're talking. Every senior leader in tech finance the works. And before I spoke there, I thought it'd be fun just to send out a survey and all I did was ask are you introverted or extroverted? Simple question. And I left the field blank instead of giving it as a tick box. And I was surprised at how many people said something akin to oh, I was introverted, but don't worry, I'm not anymore. Like they were recovered from a disease Ridiculous.
Speaker 2:So let me be clear about what introversion is. It's just where you draw your energy. That is it, for instance, melissa and I. Well, I can only speak for myself. I'm enjoying this dialogue Doesn't mean I'm not going to be tired afterwards. When I go networking, I enjoy it now Doesn't mean I'm not going to be tired. Try getting me off a stage. I love helping people on stage. I'm exhausted afterwards. Now here's the interesting thing. It used to take me over a day to recover from speaking from stage. Now it takes me about 45 minutes. I used to be able to speak for an hour before I was tired. Now I can do about just over half a day.
Speaker 2:Now the reason I'm highlighting these things is a lot of people say, oh, that must mean you're no longer introverted. No, you can't change who you are. And no, I haven't become ambiverted. Right, people are what they are and there are the occasional people that are ambiverted. Most people have learned skill sets to overcome certain barriers that they had.
Speaker 2:And I see introversion or extroversion because, let's be honest, extroverts are often aren't the best listeners, the most empathetic people, but they're willing to go and learn those skills because they know that they can. Introverts believe they can't do these so-called gift of gab activities because they believe that they can't succeed. They can't learn the skills because they don't have the competency. So what I suggest to people is if you leave a networking room and you're tired afterwards, if you and you might get confused, oh, but when I hang out with one or two family or friends, I don't get tired. That's not what I said. When you go to a networking event, if you're tired afterwards, if you go to a party and you're tired afterwards if you do one of these so-called extroverted arenas and you're tired afterwards. Even if you're less tired than you used to be, that just means you learned a system and process. You're absolutely an introvert.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's really good, and I think, too, what you're talking about is just, I mean, really applies to any, any difference that you have in your brain, right, like we were talking earlier about having ADHD or, you know, being on the autism spectrum or something like that.
Speaker 1:That's like you don't you. You always have that in your brain. You always are an introvert, but you find ways to compensate for it. You find ways to manage your energy a little bit better. Maybe you don't go in like at a 10 out of 10, maybe you go in at a five out of 10., so you can save some of it. You just find different ways to work with yourself rather than against yourself, and I think that kind of we're coming full circle to the beginning of where this interview started, in terms of not trying to force yourself to be a different way, but rather accepting. This is the way that I am, this is where I get my energy, this is what drains my energy, and how can I figure out how to structure this so that I can still do it in a way that feels good to me and not draining?
Speaker 2:I mean you're 100% right and I think that what most people, most introverts, get in their way with is they say I see other people succeeding and networking and they're doing this, so I'll copy that Firstly, I promise you it's not working for them as much as you think it is.
Speaker 2:And then, secondly, it's going to drain your life, and I do know I'm honored to be on the top 30 list of global sales gurus and I have to admit there are some other introverts out there on that list as well and I think that really shows that introverts can become the best in the business, because I truly believe that, as an introvert, we tend to hold onto a system for dear life and any system will outperform a winged presentation every day of the week eventually, and it won't even take that long.
Speaker 2:But the problem is that we don't know, we don't believe that there is a system out there that can change the way we do things, and that's what we really need to embrace. It's not seeing introversion as a disadvantage, because the fact of the matter is, if you learn a system and a process, it's a huge advantage. I mean, you have the ability to actively listen and empathize more than any extrovert. Why would you not want to leverage those skills? And, by the way, if you want to look at a statistic around what competencies people love versus what they hate in networking, go and listen to. Ivan Meisner came on my Introverts Edge podcast and he brought out all the qualities people like and they all love introverted, specific characteristics.
Speaker 2:The problem is we don't know what to say at the beginning. So fix that. Use the information I just gave you. Fix that problem and then you'll find that you'll serve so many more people, but don't serve everybody Because, truthfully, you're never going to be as good at serving everyone as specific people anyway and most people say, well, I can't. Any customer is a good customer right now and that is true. But you'll actually get more customers saying I work specifically with this group of people.
Speaker 2:By the way, I didn't say exclusively. I would always say I specialize with. Specialty is a wonderful word. It's like asking a doctor versus a specialist for help. We always expect to pay a specialist more, but on top of that we also generally expect that they've done better in the general practice, which is why they were invited into a specialty.
Speaker 2:So when I'm asked what I do and I say specialize with introverted service providers extroverts even go well, I don't have that problem. But you're probably amazing at sales systems, probably the best in the world. If you're helping introverts, there's no downside. And, by the way, for those average people that, like you know, I'm an accountant and I'm now going to come up with a unified message and I'm going to change all of this, I'll lose all. Customers aren't checking your website and, truthfully, you could put I'm now a dentist on your website. Your customers won't care. Even the referrals won't care. They're like Melissa said you were amazing accountants. Can you still help me with my accounting work? Stop worrying about this is all about new market acquisition and showing up authentically to attract clients not just clients, but clients that will pay you for what you're worth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is such good information and I love that you are not only teaching us things, but also giving us some actionable advice that we can put into practice right now. That's going to make us so much better at talking about what we do and connecting with people and not wasting so much time when we're networking. So I do want to wrap it up, even though I feel like we could keep going for another three hours. If people want to know more about you, if they want to learn more about what you do, obviously they can check out your book, which is amazing. I tell them that all the time, but how else can they connect with you?
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. One of the things I always suggest is first thing, help yourself. So I would suggest the best way to take action on this is to get somebody else you know that doesn't have your same functional skill to listen to this podcast and then go to MatthewPollardcom forward slash growth and there you'll get a five-step template that will help you create your version of the China Success Coach, the Rapid Growth Guide, your unified message, and really find your niche of willing and wanting to buy clients. You know it's funny I did this at the National Freelance Conference a couple of years ago and at the end I said look, put your hand up. If you now believe you've got a unified message that will excite and inspire and you've identified a niche of people that will pay you what you're worth, 97% of the room put their hands up. The. The template at matthewpollardcom forward slash growth will actually give you the framework to get to the outcome and it works if you spend the time doing it.
Speaker 2:You've totally plugged my Introverts Edge networking book a bunch, which I appreciate. I think for the other people that struggle with sales, no, you can also go to the introvertsedgecom to get my book on sales. Now my publisher is going to hate me when I say this, but you do not need to buy my book. What I would suggest is if you go to the introvertsedgecom and download the first chapter, that'll give you overwhelming evidence you can succeed in sales as an introvert, and it will map the full seven-step process. If you do nothing more than grab those step headlines and put what you currently say into it, you'll quickly realize that some things don't fit. Throw that out. You shouldn't be saying it to customers. Then you'll realize there's some things out of order. Fix that and then fill the gaping holes. If you do nothing more than that, you'll double your sales in the next 60 days and, as I said, you can get that at theintrovertsedgecom.
Speaker 2:If you get stuck on anything, connect with me on LinkedIn, send me an audio message and for those people that don't know that you can send audio messages, you can do it on your iPhone or your Android phone. Can't do it on a PC. It's the most wonderful sales tool to re-engage people these days. Send me an audio message. If you can't figure it out, send me an actual message and I would be delighted to answer your questions, because the last thing I want somebody to do is hear this podcast interview and go. That's great. I'm now inspired as an introvert Cause. If you don't put the tactics to work, then I haven't helped you. All I've done is inspired you to feel like you can, but still not do it, and that's that's not the path that I want to go.
Speaker 1:Yes, fabulous, I will. Those are great resources. I will link all of those in the show notes so everybody can go grab those and thank you again for coming on.
