How Heart Centered Entrepreneurs Can Learn to Love Networking (From the Ideal Practice Podcast w/Wendy Pitts Reeves)

Hate traditional networking? Same. 

That’s why I stopped doing it - and started doing this instead.

This episode is a little different because the tables are turned: I’m the guest this time, joining Wendy Pitts Reeves on her Ideal Practice Podcast for a convo all about how heart-centered women can grow their businesses through real, human connection (without turning into a walking sales pitch).

We talk about why traditional networking feels so gross (especially for service-based entrepreneurs), what to do instead, and how to make relationship-building feel good and actually lead to business growth.

If you’ve ever said “networking just isn’t my thing,” this one’s for you.

In this episode, we cover:

• Why “finding clients” is actually not the point of networking
• Simple mindset shifts that make networking feel way less awkward
• Creative ways to find networking events that don’t drain your soul
• My favorite trick for easing anxiety at in-person events 
• What to do after the event to keep the connection going (without being creepy or transactional)

Networking doesn’t have to be awkward, exhausting, or fake. When you approach it with intention and a human-first mindset, it can actually be fun AND effective.

Loved this convo?  Listen to the full interview on the Ideal Practice Podcast HERE!

Want to practice this kind of connection in real life? 

Come to the next PWR Virtual Speed Networking event (always the first Tuesday of the month. 

For even deeper connections, more support and faster business growth, check out the Powerful Women Rising Business Growth Community!

Chapters

• 0:00 Podcast Introduction and Personal Update
• 2:43 Meeting Melissa: Business Relationship Strategist
• 8:08 Rethinking Networking: Purpose and Mindset
• 16:36 Finding Your Networking Format and Style
• 25:14 Building Connections vs. Making Transactions
• 33:59 The Art of Effective Follow-up
• 48:23 From Connection to Collaboration and Business
• 1:16:56 Final Thoughts: Honor Your Own Path

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:04

Welcome to Powerful Women Rising, a podcast for female entrepreneurs ready to do business their way. Grab your coffee and join host Melissa Snow, business relationship strategist and founder of the Powerful Women Rising community, as she interviews industry experts and shares insights on strategy, marketing, mindset and more. Here you'll find the tools, strategies and inspiration you need to feel empowered, take bold action in your business and keep rising.

Speaker 2: 0:35

Hello friends, welcome back to another episode of the Powerful Women Rising Podcast. I'm your host, melissa Snow. I talk to people all the time who want to start a podcast, or they've thought about starting a podcast, and they're like, I don't know, it seems so hard, it seems like so much work. Honestly, the hardest thing is figuring out what to say when I record these introductions because, like, I want to introduce myself again, because maybe this is the first time you've ever listened to the podcast and also maybe it's not, and you're like I could literally recite this introduction for you. And then I also feel like I want to say something like fun and interesting and like engaging, and it's just so much pressure, you guys, it's so much pressure. Okay, I am Melissa.

Speaker 2: 1:22

I am a weirdo, but not a salesy weirdo, just a weirdo. I am a business relationship strategist and I love helping women grow their businesses through authentic connections and genuine relationships, aka networking like a human, not like a salesy weirdo. I live in Colorado Springs, colorado. I have two dogs. I currently only have one cat shocker. I generally am fostering cats and kittens, so I usually have more than just my George, but today I only have George and I am a Swifty, who recently started working part-time at Starbucks and it's funny if you've been listening to this podcast for a while, because you know I'm kind of a Starbucks addict and that's not really why I got a job there. Mostly I got a job there because I wanted to be able to go to work at 430 in the morning and be done by 930 or 10 and have the whole rest of my day left. So I just started a week ago and it is so much to learn. I have my little flashcards here with all the drink recipes on it and just living the dream.

Speaker 2: 2:26

So today on the podcast, we're going to mix things up a little bit. Instead of listening to me interview someone else, you're going to listen to someone else interview me. I'm going to share an interview that I did on the Ideal Practice Podcast with Wendy Pitts-Reeves, and this is probably one of the favorite interviews that I've ever done, for a couple reasons. One is Wendy. She's just delightful and she's one of those people that as soon as you start talking to her, you're like, oh my gosh, I love you and now you're my best friend.

Speaker 2: 2:51

The other reason that I really love her is because of the work that she's doing in the world.

Speaker 2: 2:55

She's been a psychotherapist for a long time and now she also works as a business coach helping heart-centered women who are in helping professions.

Speaker 2: 3:04

They're therapists, healers, yoga teachers, massage therapists with private practices, who are great at what they do but often feel super conflicted about charging for it. And one of the reasons that I love Wendy is because her work and my work align very well. We're both in the business of helping women stop playing small, own their expertise and build businesses that are rooted in both service and sustainability, especially for women who feel like they don't fit into other spaces. They don't want to do things the way that everyone else does them and, as it turns out, these are usually the women that shy away from networking because it feels awkward and sleazy and salesy and fake, and so Wendy and I are doing the same work in very different ways. So this podcast interview is about networking, but it's really about so much more, and if you enjoy it, if you vibe with what I'm saying, if you find Wendy as delightful as I do, definitely check out the Ideal Practice podcast. I will put the link in the show notes.

Speaker 3: 4:05

You're listening to Ideal Practice, episode number 150. Oh y'all, today's episode is so good. Have you ever tried networking, say at a conference or some local professional group meeting, as a way to market your practice, to get your name out there, and you just absolutely freaking hated it. I gotcha, I feel ya, and if that's you, this episode is for you, turns out. As today's guest, melissa Snow, says, we are thinking about this whole networking thing all wrong, and she's going to make this way easier for you and for me. So stay tuned. Hi, I'm Wendy Pitts Reeves and, with over two decades of experience in the private practice world, I've built my six-figure business while learning a lot of lessons the hard way. This is the first podcast that shows you how to apply the principles of energy alignment and strategy to build a practice that is profit-centered but people-forward.

Speaker 1: 5:27

This is the Ideal Practice.

Speaker 3: 5:28

Podcast. Hey folks, this is Wendy. Wendy Pitts Reeves your host. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of the Ideal Practice Podcast. As always, I'm thrilled to be with you guys today and I have got a treat for you today, all right. So many times on this podcast you have heard me say that if you are great at what you do but no one knows about you because you're like the best kept secret in town, well, the clients who really need your help and who could benefit from knowing you won't know how to find you. They won't even know you exist. Pillar number six of my framework, the seven pillars of an ideal practice, is promotion. Like it or not, learning how to promote that is, to market your services is just one of those things you've got to learn as a business owner, and one of the ways to do that is through something we call networking.

Speaker 3: 6:25

Well, I don't know about you, but most of my clients hate that idea and it's a little bit like pulling teeth to try to get them to figure out a way to implement that idea, and that is exactly why I think you're going to love today's guest, melissa Snow. Today's guest, melissa Snow. Melissa is a business relationship strategist and she takes that role seriously. She is dedicated to empowering women in entrepreneurship. She founded the Powerful Women Rising Community, which provides female business owners with essential support and resources for all kinds of business growth.

Speaker 3: 7:06

But Melissa's other mission is to revolutionize networking, promoting authenticity and genuine connections over those kind of sleazy sales tactics that we're so used to hearing about Y'all. She's about how to turn what we would typically call a networking experience into something that is based on connection, not transaction, and I don't know about you, but I find that is in much more alignment with who I am and how I like to operate, and I think it's going to be for you too. In other words, we're going to talk about how to grow a business, as Melissa says, that is profitable, sustainable and rooted in authenticity. Good stuff, y'all, and lots of great tips today.

Speaker 3: 7:56

So without further ado, let's get in to the interview. All right, Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the Ideal Practice. I am so happy to be hanging out with you guys today because we're going to have a conversation that I know is going to make you a little squirmy, and I think by the time we're done you'll be like oh, maybe that's not so bad. After all, that's my goal for today. So you've already heard a little bit about my guest. Let me go ahead and bring her on. Say hello to Melissa.

Speaker 2: 8:28

Hi Melissa, Good morning, Hi everybody. So good to be here.

Speaker 3: 8:32

Good morning. I always want to say good morning Vietnam. Well, melissa, you and I met just last week and it was like such a great conversation. Pretty quickly I was like, oh yeah, we just need to do this, we just need to do this. Let's start by I always like to know where people are, so tell everybody where you are in the world.

Speaker 2: 8:58

Yeah, I'm in Colorado. I live in Colorado.

Speaker 3: 8:59

Springs, which is just about an hour south of Denver. Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful place.

Speaker 2: 9:03

It is beautiful.

Speaker 3: 9:03

Yeah, it is absolutely spectacular. Yeah we have a lot of sunshine. A lot of sunshine, that's right. We talked about weather last time, didn't we? Yeah, so tell everybody who do you serve, who do you work with and how do you help them. Let's start with that.

Speaker 2: 9:19

Yeah, so I work with female entrepreneurs in various industries, various stages of business, and I do a couple different things. I run an online community for female entrepreneurs called the Powerful Women Rising Community. It is a networking community, but it's a lot more too. We incorporate business strategy, we do some masterminds, we do some coworking calls, and really the purpose of it is to allow you to network, to build connections, to build relationships and also work on your business at the same time, so that you don't have to choose one or the other. The other thing that you know that I love to do is to educate people about networking. I'm really on a mission to change the face of networking and what it is that people think about when they think about networking, because like you said in the beginning, a lot of people, especially very heart-centered, sensitive, introverted- feeling people.

Speaker 3: 10:12

You are talking about us.

Speaker 2: 10:15

Find networking very cringy, and so I love helping people find a way to do it in a way that feels good to them, feels authentic to them, is actually, dare I say, fun, and also is effective and gets some results in their business.

Speaker 3: 10:29

That's a radical concept. Networking is fun and the whole point like it's going to get you somewhere, like there's a reason why this is important. Yeah, and you really are into this. Like this is your thing, like you, really you have built into this. Like this is your thing, like you, really you have built your, your business around this. And just I told you before we started the recording that you have really good energy yourself. Like your, your online presence is really lively and fun, which is nice and makes it easier to talk about something as cringy as networking. So how the heck, how, did you get into this? Because I have not asked you this. I do not know this story. Why networking and how did you land here? I'd love to. I'm curious about that.

Speaker 2: 11:11

Yeah, it's a. It's a good question, because I've had a lot of different experiences in entrepreneurship. I never intended to be an entrepreneur. I was working full-time as a personal injury paralegal working for attorneys on car accidents Wow and I was working full-time as a personal injury paralegal working for attorneys on car accidents Wow.

Speaker 2: 11:26

And I was doing some moonlighting on the side for a guy who had his own business where he would subcontract with people to write medical record summaries for these attorneys and it was a great deal for him because he would charge these attorneys $60 an hour.

Speaker 2: 11:41

He'd pay me $25 an hour to write the medical summary and then he would keep the rest, and so I worked for him for a little while and then he decided to take his business in a different direction, asked me if I wanted his clients. I said, sure, I became an entrepreneur overnight, with a full client load making money, and I was like, wow, entrepreneurship is so fun.

Speaker 1: 12:01

This is cool.

Speaker 2: 12:02

Why doesn't everybody do this? Who knew so? Fast forward a couple of years, I got my first coaching certification and I started my first business. It was called Love Starts here. I was a dating and relationship coach, and that was when I really learned that entrepreneurship was much different than my first experience. I thought I could just show up and say, hey, I'm a coach. Who's?

Speaker 2: 12:24

ready and all the people would run and throw their money at me and it would be amazing. And it didn't really work like that. And so, through a lot of trial and error, I learned a lot about sales, a lot about marketing, a lot about what works, what doesn't work. I wasted I will say wasted a lot of time. I wasted I will say wasted a lot of time, a lot of money on the program that promises to be the thing. That is the answer that you've been missing, right? Or this coach has this cookie cutter formula that she'll give you for $10,000 and you follow it and you'll be a millionaire like her. And I tried all of those things and in retrospect I realized the one thing that consistently built that business and made me money was the connections that I made, the relationships that I had built, and that really was the thing that was missing.

Speaker 2: 13:13

That I didn't realize was the secret.

Speaker 2: 13:17

And so a big part of why I started this business is because I wanted to save other entrepreneurs from spending all that time and money. And it's not just the time and money that we spend on these programs and these courses and these things that we think are going to help us, but it's also like it takes an emotional toll on you, right? Because you've invested all this money. This coach has promised you that it's going to work. You're doing all of the things and it's still not working. So it's got to be you.

Speaker 2: 13:45

You must be the problem, and I am neurodivergent in multiple ways. I am not a morning person. I am not a type A go-getter personality. I'm not a lot of the things that people think when they think successful entrepreneur, and so I really loved the idea of helping other women find a way to build their business in a way that feels good to them, that feels authentic to them, without feeling like you had to force yourself into some cookie cutter mold of like. This is how it's going to work. This is how you're going to be successful.

Speaker 3: 14:22

That is so true. Something that you said has already struck a chord for me. You said something about you realize that there's building a business and then there's establishing relationships and connections with other people, and one doesn't have to sacrifice the other, which is not something I think we typically think about. But you are absolutely right. I talk a lot about mindset. That's a lot that comes into our level of success and how we tend to self-sabotage, but this is absolutely true. I think this is a factor that you don't hear about this. What you're talking about here is what's unique about it is it really is connection. So you talk about it's not what you know, it's who you know, but it's not who you know at a surface level. It's not tangential, it's not. You went to the chamber mixer and you sent a business card and so great, you're rolling in money now. That's not how it works. You're talking about something much deeper, aren't you?

Speaker 2: 15:16

Absolutely yes, yeah, and I think a lot of times people. One of the things that I talk about a lot is the purpose of networking. A lot of people think and this is when it becomes cringy is when we think that the purpose of networking is to find clients, we're going to go into the room and find the people to sell our stuff to. Of course, that feels cringy to us. I mean, I'm sure there's some people that doesn't feel cringy too, but people like you and I that feels cringy. And I always say the purpose of networking really is to build your network and there's a lot of different roles that people will fill in your network. Some of them are going to be referral partners for you. Some of them are going to be people that you collaborate with. Some of them may be your clients, but also some of them might be just people who are a little further ahead than you in business and can teach you something.

Speaker 2: 16:03

Some of them might be your accountability partners, the people who you know can help you with your business strategy or help you find what's missing, and so there definitely is that part of networking that is about building your business and working on your business and improving your business through those relationships as well. It's not all about referrals and finding clients.

Speaker 3: 16:27

It's not all about trying to get something from somebody else.

Speaker 2: 16:30

Yes, yes, in fact, it's not about that at all.

Speaker 3: 16:33

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 16:36

So, yeah, I love that, and so you're already expanding just the definition of what networking is and the impact it can have on your life, which was something I kind of wanted to start with, like, why does this matter and why should we care?

Speaker 3: 16:51

So you don't know this, but I ran a large group practice for 20, 25 years that I built from the ground up, and the thing that made that practice work was the relationships that I established with various people in my community, much of which I did not through anything related to the practice, but through volunteering or serving on a board or connecting with a group somewhere or just showing up at public events and getting to know people established a reputation that really served us well over time. Yeah, and the whole thing that you just said about it's not just about selling or getting referrals, but you also will get people who will help you in ways that isn't about sending you business. It's like other things you don't even expect. That's also so true, as you're saying that I'm like I can think of countless examples of where I have experienced that. That's absolutely true.

Speaker 2: 17:42

Yeah, yeah. I remember when I was a newer entrepreneur I'd only been a coach for only for a couple of years and I was having a conversation with a woman that I met at a networking event. We'd met for coffee and we were just kind of chatting about whatever and she said something about business insurance and I said, yeah, the what is that? She's like she says please tell me about business insurance. I said I don't even know what business insurance is.

Speaker 3: 18:06

Do I need that.

Speaker 2: 18:09

So I mean, that's a great example of like something, and there's a lot of those of things that I've just learned over time by having conversations with people who were a little further ahead than me, and even a lot of things I've learned from having conversations with people who are newer in business than me. So there's there's a lot of value in all of it, and you just never know.

Speaker 3: 18:29

Yeah, and do you, do you not find that your own life is richer as you start connecting with these people? Cause you really are like, you end up making friends with people?

Speaker 2: 18:37

Oh, absolutely yeah, and that's one of the reasons that I feel so strongly about this and I'm so passionate about this is that I really started networking intentionally six years ago when I moved to Southern Colorado from Northern Colorado, and part of it was because I was building a business, but also part of it was because I didn't have any friends here. And you know, I moved with my husband and he's great, but I also wanted more than that and I look back on that, like I look at how, where my life is now, where my businesses, my friendships, everything and I think how different would I be right now if I had not done any networking in the last six years.

Speaker 2: 19:19

I mean, that's where all of my friends have come from.

Speaker 3: 19:44

That's where breakthroughs in my health journey have come from. It's where I've learned so much about my business. I've learned so much about myself. I have learned you know people who support that happen and this is kind of cool and just yesterday. So one of the things I do, I have like a little baby counseling practice that I keep going and then I do coaching and podcasting and in my little baby counseling practice I say that because I used to have a huge practice and I have downsized right and what I have now I am very focused about who I want to work with and I tend to work with women leaders who are at midlife and who are stressed out and all the things that come with that. And I have a group of support. It's basically a support group of sorts for these folks and they are amazing human beings. I love these women so much and they were talking to each other in a group chat we have about how their conversations with other people other women in their lives, in their work in their world, other women in their lives, in their work in their world have deepened and changed as a result of them being in this group yes, which I don't call it a networking group. But it is basically the same concept.

Speaker 3: 20:53

Once you get to know people and your relationship goes deeper because you're talking about more important things, that has a ripple effect through the rest of your life. You never know where that's going to take you. That's huge, yeah. Yeah, and you talked about introverts. I'd love to hear a little bit about that. Let's start.

Speaker 3: 21:12

I think I want to start with that because, as a coach, when I work with practice owners because I do get how important relationships are I often say you only need five people. I didn't tell you this, but I always say you need five people to get your practice going A preacher, a doctor, a nonprofit contact of some sort, a friend and another therapist. Like, if you have a deep relationship with those five people, they're going to refer to you. That's where I kind of start. But I try to get people to go out and, like, set up coffees, meet their colleagues, and it is hard to get them to do that Hard. And it is hard to get them to do that Hard especially I think, more so today because so many people are leaning on telehealth and they're locked in their office all day, either one-on-one with a client or on a computer and to get them to go out into the actual, real, physical world is tough. They're like I don't even know how to do that. What do I call? What do I say? Can you help those people?

Speaker 2: 22:04

Oh, yes, yeah, so first a resource I always recommend. There's a book by Matthew Pollard called the Introvert's Edge to Networking.

Speaker 1: 22:13

His first book was.

Speaker 2: 22:14

The Introvert's Edge to Sales, and then he wrote the Introvert's Edge to Networking, and that book really has had a huge impact on my business. It's kind of the basis and the starting point of my business, and so that's a great book. But I think here's the thing I often say you know you're talking about your group of women and how it's not really a networking group. I would say that it is because I say networking it can happen anywhere, that you're creating a connection with another human being, right? So this is part of the thing is like we think of networking as it happens at networking events. It happens in networking groups, but really it can happen anywhere. And so finding the way that you like to network, the format that you like to network in, some people are really great one-on-one, some people are really comfortable having one-on-one conversations, other people not so much, and so they prefer to be in a room of people.

Speaker 2: 23:15

One thing that I found when I started networking I was going to all the things, and that was part of how I realized that there were a lot of different formats and ways to do it. I would go to these networking events that were like happy hours basically. So you come, you get a drink, you get a snack, you mingle, you chat, you go home whenever you want, right. And that is like my worst nightmare. And I suspect most introverts listening to this are like please, no, because I'm just not the person that is going to walk up to people who are already having a conversation and be like hi, I'm Melissa, it's so nice to meet you.

Speaker 2: 23:52

What are you guys talking about? Like, that's not, that's never me. But then I found networking groups where, or networking events that were more like speed dating, or where they would say oh, you have the number three, you sit at that table with all the other people who have the number three. I'm going to give you a topic to talk about for 10 minutes around the table and then you're going to move to a different table. You give me that. I can do that all day long and love it right.

Speaker 2: 24:20

So that's part of it is finding the types of events, the ways that you like to network, the formats that feel comfortable and good to you. And you know we talk people. You know people often confuse, introvert and shy. Yes, I'm not shy, clearly yes. But the biggest thing is does your energy feel drained or do you feel energized after? And I have found there are some networking events and some formats of networking and ways to networking that I actually do feel energized after.

Speaker 2: 24:53

I don't feel drained, and so those are the ones that I really gravitate to.

Speaker 3: 24:58

So the difference between those two that you just talked about is one is very loose and free flowing and nobody knows what to do, and the other one is structured and you have guidance and the structure gives you like you can operate within that I know what to do, I can handle this, which is helpful. I get that. That makes perfect sense to me. Yeah, yeah, give me some structure.

Speaker 2: 25:18

And I also have found people who like to network in like non-networking spaces, like your group that you're talking about, right, or like. You know, I live in Colorado, so everybody here wants to do stuff outside. We want to hike, we want to camp, we want to I don't want to whitewater raft, but some people do Psychopaths, and so sometimes it's better to just find a group of people who are doing something that you like to do. Right, yes, you're inevitably going to build connections with those people, even if none of those people are entrepreneurs and you are a B2B provider or you are a therapist or a healer or whatever. Like, you're going to find people in those circles and in those environments who are like you and who know people like you, and that allows that relationship to really just grow and happen organically.

Speaker 2: 26:13

Right, you're just, we get together every other weekend and we hike and we chat while we hike and we're getting to know each other and learn about each other, and that turns into something. So there's a lot of different ways to do it and I just say you know, there's a lot of similarities to when I was a dating coach. I find myself saying a lot of the same things now and I would tell my clients they would go on a date and they would say that was terrible. I'm never going on another date ever again, as if this man has anything to do with the next 20 men that they're going to go on a date with. Oh, but they do, you know they do.

Speaker 2: 26:48

They're all the same. And also people listening to this are like I don't care what she says. Networking events are all the same, they're not. So if you go to one and you're like that was horrible, I am never doing that again. Just know it could be the format. It could be the person who's running the event, because a lot of times the person who's running the event attracts people similar to them.

Speaker 3: 27:14

Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2: 27:16

There's a lot of factors that could make a difference and just keep trying until you find the format and the event and the group that you like that works for you.

Speaker 3: 27:26

So you've just said several things in a row that I think I really want to highlight real quick while I comment on the big fluffy tail that just walked through the image.

Speaker 2: 27:34

I know I was trying to pretend like that didn't happen. Is that your dog that I just saw? That was my cat and he was running.

Speaker 3: 27:41

Golly, it looked like a dog.

Speaker 2: 27:43

Which is why the camera bounced. That was my cat and he was running Golly. It looked like a dog, which is why the camera bounced.

Speaker 3: 27:45

That was funny. I just saw a very big, fluffy black tail. That was very cute. So a couple of things. You just gave us some tips, actually, and I want to make sure I want to capture this because I think people could use this. One of them was try different formats.

Speaker 3: 28:00

So, like that whole thing about the happy hour thing, that makes me that's a mix and mingle make small talk, mix and mingle, make small talk. And, guys, when Melissa said there's a difference between being an introvert and being shy, that's a really important point and I think most of y'all know that, but I don't want to assume that. So let me just speak to that for just a second. So let me just speak to that for just a second. Introverts go deep with people. They drive joy and satisfaction from deep conversations. What they can't do is make small talk with 20 people at one time. That's exhausting, right? So if you're an introvert, even if you're in a crowd, you will find that you connect with one person over in the corner and you talk for two hours and it was a success, right? So this whole thing about mixing and mingling in a small talk way, that might not work for you at all, but a small group setting or a structured setting like you were talking about, that might actually feel pretty good and sort of easy to manage. It makes me think about when you do this on. I've done some online virtual conference kind of things where they stick you in a break room with people on Zoom, you know, and I am like, oh gosh, I hate this because you never know who's going to show up on the screen, you know, but with a small group it's different. So structure serves, so try different formats. That's one thing you said that I really want to highlight and the other thing serves. So try different formats. That's one thing you said that I really want to highlight, and the other thing second thing you said was I wrote down join interest groups, so there's a better one. That was my shorthand. Basically, when you do things that you enjoy doing, this is brilliant, melissa.

Speaker 3: 29:37

When you do things you enjoy doing, you will meet other people who enjoy doing the same thing and you will instantly have a connection right. So when I got involved with my local chamber, I served on the board of our chamber. At one point it was really really really hard for me because I was this social worker, woo-woo type in a room full of manufacturers and architects and lawyers and gag and I and I left networking events in tears sometime because it took so much energy and it was so hard to find anything to talk about. On the other hand, the minute I started connecting with women in business actually, I helped them start a group for women in business at the chamber that was completely different because we had all this stuff. We had all kinds of things in common, right?

Speaker 3: 30:27

If you're a whitewater rafter, if you're a hiker, if you're an artist, go join an artist group or hang out at a local studio. You will meet other artists and you will naturally talk about what you do and before you know it, somebody's going to go oh, wait a minute, you're a counselor, Wait a minute. You do yoga. Where, wait a minute. You're a counselor, wait a minute. You do yoga when? Wait a minute. You're a massage therapist. That's cool. I've been looking for somebody Like it will happen, naturally.

Speaker 3: 30:51

That's what I love, what you're saying. So this doesn't have to be forced, you don't have to make it happen. And then the third thing you said that I think was also really important, which I haven't thought about before, is that if you try something and it doesn't work, don't assume it's because of you and don't assume it's because you can't ever do that. Study it, break it down. What didn't work, what was it about that that didn't work? And give it another shot because it could be completely different. I think that's really good what you've already said. Yeah, thank you. Am I right? Am I?

Speaker 2: 31:18

getting that right yeah.

Speaker 3: 31:20

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 31:20

Yeah, I love it. I love it when you repeat that back to me and I'm like it's good stuff, I'm smart. I'm not smart coming out of my own brain.

Speaker 3: 31:29

Did I say all that? I did say all that. Yes, you did say all that.

Speaker 2: 31:33

And I'll add to that last piece too. This is something that I tell people a lot, especially when they have a lot of anxiety about networking. If they've never done it before or they've only had bad experiences, don't be afraid to reach out to the person who's organizing the event ahead of time and ask them whatever questions you want to ask them. So if it's not clear what the format is, if it's not clear who's going to be there, if it's not clear what the structure is going to be or how many times you're going to have to stand up and talk in front of the room, yes, ask them. There is no reason that you can't ask them. I run in-person networking events. I run virtual networking events. People ask me questions like that all the time. There's never a time that I'm like oh weird, why is she asking that? Right, yeah, and if somebody is like oh weird, why are you asking?

Speaker 3: 32:23

that that's probably not the event for you.

Speaker 2: 32:24

Absolutely. There you go, ask all the questions you want. Sometimes you can even ask for a list of the people who are going to be attending ahead of time and that gives you a chance if you're nervous about like I'm not going to know who to talk to, I'm not going to know what questions to ask, I'm not going to know how to make conversation, if you can get the attendee list ahead of time and you can look at that and see like oh cool, there's two other people coming who are also therapists.

Speaker 2: 32:48

Right, and now I've got their names in my mind. So I'm looking for them, not in a weird stalkery way, but I'm like, oh yep, there's Janice, she's one of the names I remember. Or, you know, there's a couple people who do something similar to what I do, but different, and maybe I can look at their LinkedIn and like, know a little bit about them and have some ideas of questions I can ask them ahead of time. So any preparation that you can do like that is going to take your anxiety down several notches.

Speaker 3: 33:21

Yeah, that's a really good tip. That's really good. I don't think I would have thought of that either. To call the organizer in advance and go okay, who's good. I think of that as a speaker. That same idea. When I'm asked to speak somewhere, I will say tell me who your audience is, who's likely to be in the room, what are the challenges that you think they have? So I know a little bit about who I'm going to be talking to as I sort of shape what I want to do with them. Absolutely the same idea. That's really really good. Yeah, it may make your anxiety go up, like if I was going to go to something and they said yes, we are going to ask everybody to stand up and introduce themselves. Oh, I can never do that. What would you say to that? Because I know what I would say, but I'd love to hear what you say yeah, if somebody's like oh well, never mind.

Speaker 2: 34:05

Oh gosh, I could go a lot of places with this, couldn't we? Well, I mean, there's a couple things. If you are, If you are truly like petrified, like there's no way and that's the difference between you going in that room and not going in that room Ask the person who's running the event Is it okay if I stay seated while I introduce myself? There you go? Is it okay if you just skip me, Right? I mean people, I sent out an email once I was doing an open house for a networking group that I run here in Colorado Springs and just like a guest event, and I said at the end PS, if you have anxiety about coming to these kinds of things, please don't let that stop. You Find me as soon as you walk in the door and tell me I'm freaking out. I got you.

Speaker 2: 34:52

And I actually did one time have a lovely woman come to me as soon as she walked in the door and she was like I cannot believe I even walked in the door. But you said and I'm freaking out, you know, and I introduced her to some people who I knew would be kind and loving and gentle with her. I didn't force her to, would say for the most part, these people who are organizing these networking events aren't here to make you uncomfortable and, like torture you and make you never want to come back again.

Speaker 3: 35:24

Yeah, that's so sweet, melissa, I love that.

Speaker 2: 35:26

Ask for what you need. And also, if you are not the person who's like oh my gosh, I'm so terrified I can't even walk in the room, but you're like, I really don't want to do that, push yourself. Because I read a book once, and I'm sure you know this too. I read a book about social anxiety once and it was written by a therapist and I wish I could remember the name of it. She said people come to me all the time saying I want you to help me, I want you to make me less anxious so I can go live my life. And she would always say to them actually it's the other way around you need to go live your life in order to become less anxious.

Speaker 2: 36:04

And it's the same with networking 100% you can't sit in your car. I mean, to a degree, you can sit in your car and hype yourself up and get yourself ready to go in there. And also, every time you walk into a room that you're scared to walk into, every time you stand up and introduce yourself, every time you meet someone new and have a conversation with a stranger, it gets a little bit easier because you're showing yourself over and over again that you can do it and you won't die, yes, and your social muscles will grow right and you will get the hang of it and I think you'll find sort of like key phrases that you can use.

Speaker 3: 36:42

You'll sort of figure out your own little format about how to make it work, scared Like I'm going to throw up if I go in there or if you're having a panic attack. But what I was expecting you to say was like, if it's that bad, then don't do that. Go find another format. But that's not what you said. If it's that bad, consider reaching out to the host and asking for a little help, which is beautiful, and that's also a good tip for those who might want to actually organize a networking thing, to speak to that.

Speaker 3: 37:14

You know what that makes me think of. It makes me think of 12-step meetings, because there have been so many times in my career when I've been trying to convince somebody to go to an AA meeting or an NA meeting and I'm like I know it's scary, but I swear, once you get in the door you'll feel like you're among friends, and I have had people that would go and just sit in the car in the parking lot and watch the gathering around the door. You know, sometimes for weeks before they finally got the nerve to go in. And I would say they will go around the room and introduce themselves, but you don't have to say a word. You can say I'm just here to listen, that's all you got to say right, that's what that made me think of.

Speaker 3: 37:49

So just pretend like you're going to an AA meeting, it's fine, you'll make it, it'll be all right. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2: 37:54

What would your response be to people who say I'm too scared, I can't go?

Speaker 3: 38:01

I would have pretty much similar. I think I wouldn't have thought of telling the host that you're needing help. That would not have occurred to me. So that's why I liked that, Because that's like find a way to make this work is how I'm hearing that.

Speaker 3: 38:14

So what if you still go? But you do it in a different way, you modify it a little bit and just I love the whole. It's basically sort of pre-paving the experience. Tell them I want to come, but I'm really kind of nervous. I just want somebody to like I need some help talking myself into this. Right, and and, and you're also right, if their response to that is not warm and friendly, then don't go. Yeah, cause that's not going to be for you A hundred percent.

Speaker 2: 38:40

The other thing, too, is find somebody to bring with you. Ah yeah, absolutely. I mean to go back to your AA analogy. I have gone to at least three first AA or NA meetings with somebody yes, Because it's so much easier to walk in it and I've said to them, like, if you're nervous, like let's go, I'll go with you, I'm not afraid.

Speaker 3: 39:01

And so that's what I've done that with networking, I'll go with you.

Speaker 2: 39:06

Exactly, exactly. So if it's you know, if you're super nervous about it, find somebody to go with you, that's a great, that's a great way, especially if you have a friend who is an outgoing extrovert. I have a friend like that and when we go to networking events, it's like I sit at the table. She's like my fishing pole, like she goes out, she talks to people and she'll literally bring them back to me and be like Melissa this is Lisa, she does blah, blah, blah and she wants to know about this and she'll sit her down at the table and she'll go find somebody else. I love that. That's what we need.

Speaker 3: 39:38

A fishing pole yeah, find your fishing pole. Fishing pole, friend. That's great. Oh, that's great, dang, I'm going to try to think about that, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 39:48

Yeah, I think too, and I want to ask you about this, because I'm sure this is something that you see, especially working with women in leadership roles. I think we have to talk a little bit about imposter syndrome, because that is something. First of all, I don't love calling it a syndrome, but that's what everybody knows of it as, so we'll go with it Because, honestly, it's a syndrome that every single one of us has at some point in our life right.

Speaker 2: 40:13

Sometimes we have flare-ups worse than others, but I think that's one of the things that really holds women especially back from networking and from doing it in a way that is effective, because we think everyone and this is totally how I felt, especially in the beginning, and I still feel like that sometimes, like everyone in this room is a real business owner Right, especially if I'm networking.

Speaker 3: 40:40

Meaning they are and I'm not Exactly. Is that kind of where you're going? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 40:44

Especially in the beginning. If I don't have any paying clients, if I don't have an office, if I don't have a website, I don't have business, like whatever we think is the thing that makes us like a real business owner. Yes, we think is the thing that makes us like a real business owner. And I'm going to go in this room full of real business owners who actually know what they're doing and everyone's going to realize that I'm not a real business owner, that I don't know what I'm doing, that I don't have any paying clients, whatever it is, and like I don't know what we think is going to happen, they're all going to laugh at us.

Speaker 1: 41:13

They're going to like, chase us out of the room.

Speaker 2: 41:15

I don't know in our worst nightmares and I want to talk a little bit about that, and I would love to hear what you think about that and what advice you give people, because I do think that's something that holds us back significantly.

Speaker 3: 41:28

How did you get past that for yourself? Or did you feel that yourself when you first launched this? Yeah, and you were being intentional about putting yourself out there. How did you get yourself through that? How did you coach yourself through it?

Speaker 2: 41:43

I mean I still have to coach myself through it sometimes. I think part of it goes back to that. Like you just have to do it. I think that was part of it.

Speaker 3: 41:51

Do it scared.

Speaker 2: 41:58

And the more you meet people and realize everyone else even the people you thought were the real business owners are also struggling with the same thing, maybe for different reasons, but we're all struggling with it at some point in some degree. So I think that was helpful. I think having a coach or a mentor or a therapist that can help you work through some of that mindset stuff is really helpful. In the beginning I recorded oh my gosh, why can't I think of the name of it? There's an app that is for affirmations it will come to me probably as soon as we're done with this call and it has affirmations on there that you can use or you can record your own and you can segment them into different categories. So I literally created a affirmation and I recorded them in my own voice.

Speaker 2: 42:43

That's part of it we don't like to hear our own voice, but it's important to hear our own selves say it to us. I love it Of like I thought about how do I want to feel walking into this room and what do I need to think in order to create that feeling. So, if I want to feel confident, if I want to feel like I, you know, like I belong there, if I want to feel like I don't know, comfortable all of these thoughts that I need to think to create that feeling, and I would sit in my car and I would listen to those affirmations before I walked in, just to create that feeling of like. And they were things like I belong in this room just as much as everybody else.

Speaker 2: 43:18

Yes, I have something important to offer to the women in this room. And if you think that's not actually true, think about the fact that you are unlike anyone else in that room, right, no one else has your education, your experience, your family, upbringing, your work experience, your relationships. Nobody else has that same combination, your unique combination. Yeah, so there has to be things that you can bring to that room that no one else does, because no one else has that combination.

Speaker 3: 43:56

Yeah, I love the sitting in the car with the affirmation idea which y'all, anybody could do that you could do that with your voice memo on your phone, like that's easy, right. My version of that is I would tell people to. I also would sit in the car and I'd tell people to imagine the best case scenario of what could come out of this. Well, how do you want to feel when it's over? How do you want to feel while it's going on? And what's the absolute coolest thing that could happen here and just to really like think well, you know, I mean it's probably impossible, but it would be super cool if X happened and just play with that idea and really see it in your mind and feel it before you go in, so that you are going in with your energy high. You're still nervous, but y'all, nervous energy and excited energy is the same thing, it's very similar right, I will share with you.

Speaker 3: 44:42

I had not thought about this, but you just reminded me the imposter syndrome, the I'm not good enough, I don't know enough, I'm not smart enough, I'm not far enough along in my career. All of these women in my group and these women are badass women, like one of them just got a promotion to run a part of her company that has a billion-dollar budget Like we are talking serious badasses Every single one of them were terrified to come to my little, tiny little group, terrified because of that same. What am I going to have that anybody else has, what I am remembering that you and it was awesome when they learned everybody has the same feeling. The very first time I ever had a coach call me, kind of call me out a little bit and challenge me was to, in a way that really really was kind of major was I was invited to like a weekend kind of intensive coaching thing with a bunch of business owners and I did exactly what you thought, what you just said. I thought they're all going to be these experienced people with six figure businesses and I am blah, blah, blah and she so believed in my being there. That was really powerful. So having someone who believes in you is huge. And after talking to her, I made the commitment I'm going to come do this. And it wasn't a high ticket item, it was the idea of being in the room with quote real business owners.

Speaker 3: 46:03

I sat in my car and sobbed. I mean I sobbed. I got off the phone and sobbed and this has been a long, long time ago. But it was fear. It was being seen, it was being challenged, and I was like I can't believe I'm doing this. I was absolutely freaking terrified. And you know what happened when I got to the daggum thing. I knew more than most people in the room. I had more experience than half of them. I was like I was like oh, what was I worried about? Yeah, these, I'm fine here. Yeah, better than fine here. And what I find is that kind of um, what if you go into it with I'm not good enough? Flip that into who else here thinks they're not good enough that I can help. That's what I like to do. Who can I help? So my favorite question is oh, you do what you do. What? How long have you been doing that? That's great. So what's your greatest challenge right now in your business, in your job in your work.

Speaker 3: 46:55

What? So what's your greatest challenge right now? In your business, in your job, in your work? What's your greatest challenge? Oh, that's really cool and that will get you going, because now you're helping them.

Speaker 2: 47:03

Yeah, I love that question too, because one of the things that I get asked about a lot and I'm going to segue into a new topic here, but one of the things that I get asked about a lot in networking is the follow-up. I went to the thing I met the people. Now what do I do? And I mean, if you're asking that question now, what do I do? You're already miles ahead of a bunch of other people, because a lot of people don't even realize like there's something else to do.

Speaker 3: 47:28

They just go to the networking thing and they're like I networked, nothing happened.

Speaker 2: 47:48

Yay, I was going to ask you, but the before, the during and the after, like how to think about that whole process, what you had, what you you working on right now, what's your next big thing? What do?

Speaker 1: 47:57

you, what are you?

Speaker 2: 47:57

interested in learning about all those kinds of questions. I like to ask those questions because that gives me an idea of how I can follow up with them in a way that provides value. That's one of the things that I always recommend when people follow up is find a way to provide value to that person, and so I will. You know, if I have a roster or I have a program or something, even if the person gives me their business card, I'll make a little note on my business card that is like wants to start a podcast, right? Or I'm struggling with growing her email list, or something like that. And when I go to follow up with them in a week or two weeks I will send an email. I'll say hey, it was so great to meet you at such and such event.

Speaker 2: 48:40

I loved our conversation about whatever, right? Because that kind of reminds them of who you were, because they met a lot of people too. Probably I loved our conversation about this. I just wanted to send you this article I found about growing your email list, because this is one of the things we talked about and I thought this might be helpful. Or I will hear a podcast episode about something and I'll think like, oh, I just met a lady last week who was talking about this. I'll forward it to her and say, hey, just heard. This made me think of our conversation. And that is such a great way to follow up with people for so many reasons. The first is that it really lets them know that you saw them and heard them and valued what they said. Enough to remember. And, as you probably know, there are studies that show that the impact of feeling seen and heard on the brain looks very similar to the impact of feeling loved.

Speaker 2: 49:34

They're almost indistinguishable, and so that really is a great way to create a connection with somebody right off the bat in that first follow-up. The other thing I really like about that is that you are again not approaching it from a what can I get from you? What's? In this for me kind of approach, right you are? I just heard this and I thought of you, thought I'd share it if it's of interest. Saw this article, I just heard this and I thought of you, thought I'd share it if it's of interest.

Speaker 2: 49:59

Saw this article met this person and she does exactly what you and I were just talking about. Let me know if you want me to connect you. Anything like that is just like. I'm here to help.

Speaker 3: 50:11

I'm not expecting anything in return, and it's genuine. It's genuine You're not manipulating. It's real. Like I really do want to help and this is a cool thing you might like.

Speaker 2: 50:18

Yeah, and that's an important piece of it too is the intention behind it right? Yeah, do go at it from, and part of this just requires you to trust me, part of this just requires you to believe what I'm saying is true. But go at it from a space of if I just continue to provide value and support other people and lift other women up, it's going to come back to me.

Speaker 3: 50:42

Yeah, that's true and it is.

Speaker 2: 50:44

We don't have to do a one-for-one thing. I will tell you I have a lot of networking nightmare stories. But there's a woman that I met at a networking event years and years ago and we've kind of just stayed in touch via social media. I comment on her stuff and years ago and we've kind of just stayed in touch via social media.

Speaker 2: 51:01

You know I comment on her stuff and vice versa. And I was wanting to expand the networking group that I run here into further East, which is where she lives, and she runs a community group out there that has a bunch of people in it. So I sent her a message. I said hey, really wanting to expand out East, is it cool if I make a post in your Facebook group about this event that we're doing and it's just a? It's like a community news group, right? And she responded to me and she said hi, please remind me the last time that you sent me a referral, because I'm having a hard time remembering.

Speaker 2: 51:37

Oh, my gosh, are you kidding me? I mean, first of all, with the passive aggressiveness, but also, this is not the approach we want with networking. We are not sitting at home keeping track of like oh, wendy sent me an article today, keeping score. Wendy sent me a client, dang, I better send Wendy something because Wendy sent me a client. Dang, I better send Wendy something because Wendy sent me a client. That's awesome. Or, like you know, you reach out to me and say hey, I just did this podcast interview. It was so good, your people would love it. Can you share it? Well, wendy, I'm looking at my scorecard and no, that's awful, that's really awful.

Speaker 2: 52:14

That's not how we're doing it. So we're doing it, so we're approaching it from I want to provide value, I want to be helpful. This is how I create real, genuine connections and it's going to come back to me and when you come at it from that energy and from that intention, it will come back to you.

Speaker 3: 52:29

Yeah, that's huge. You said to me when we talked before that one of the things that was important to you is to help people understand how networking can be about connection, not transaction.

Speaker 1: 52:41

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 52:42

Which is exactly what you're talking about here. I would like run to the run in the other direction, like that woman to be like it'll be, you know, snowballs melting in hell before I be like, yeah, no way am I ever sending you anybody because of that kind of energy. Why would I want to even talk to you?

Speaker 1: 52:57

That's awful yeah.

Speaker 3: 52:58

Yeah, so. So I hear in that, I hear check yourself right. So if you're, if you're going into it like you know, we may not admit it, but if you're going into it thinking, well, maybe I can get something from this, you might want to be careful about that. Make sure that you are showing up from an authentic place of service.

Speaker 2: 53:16

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 53:17

All within reason, like not being crazy. Not being ridiculous because my folks can take service to an extreme, but protect yourself, take care of yourself. But this should come easy for us. This kind of service right, help people.

Speaker 2: 53:32

That's good. Yeah, we're not talking about giving your services away for free, no Right?

Speaker 3: 53:37

Wendy says thank you and oh yes, thank you, or I will come hunt you down.

Speaker 2: 53:43

But taking a couple of minutes to send an article you found or you know. I get these emails from podcast guestscom about these podcasts. Maybe that's how we connected, I don't remember, but there's these podcasts who are looking for guests, and there'll be ones at the bottom that are like we're looking for people who specialize in travel or we're looking for people who specialize in I don't know aliens, and then I'm like oh, it takes me 30 seconds to forward that to the travel agents that I know and say, hey, look at the bottom, it might be a good one for you, right, and that helps people First of all.

Speaker 2: 54:14

It keeps you top of mind with people, right, because that helps people First of all. It keeps you top of mind with people, right, because they're seeing your name and they're like, oh yeah, I remember her, gosh, that was so nice of her, I love that lady yeah. And that's how you create the connection.

Speaker 3: 54:25

What else would you do for follow-up? Are there other things that you have in mind?

Speaker 2: 54:28

Yeah, yeah, this also is how can you?

Speaker 3: 54:31

make this effective.

Speaker 2: 54:41

Like what do to make this useful? Yeah, yeah, this also is a personalized answer, right? Because it's funny, because the one size fits all answer sells, right, if I have this like here's the formula for follow-up one through 10, a thousand dollars. I'll give it to you, Promise it works. People love that.

Speaker 2: 54:56

And then I'm like well, there's a lot of different ways that work. Let's find yours. No, that sounds like a lot of work. Just give me the 10 steps. But really, if you are doing it in a way that works for someone else and it doesn't work for you, you're going to get so burned out. Number one, it's probably not going to work that well for you, but number two, you're also going to get really burnt out and frustrated and discouraged. I have this conversation with women in the powerful women rising community a lot, because I hear over and over again I know I should be on social media. I know I should do more on social media. I'm really going to try to do more on social media this week. I just really hate it and I'm always like why though?

Speaker 3: 55:41

Why should you do?

Speaker 2: 55:41

more on social media. Why do you have to? Who said you have to If you really hate it that much? I have a friend who's built a consistent six-figure business. She hates social media. She's built this business through going out and meeting. She's my fishing pole friend, actually, and that's how she's built her business right.

Speaker 2: 55:58

So, none of this is a have to thing I personally enjoy. There's some social media that I really enjoy. I was trying to force myself with Instagram for a long time and then I was like take your own advice, why are you forcing yourself? I don't love Instagram. I love Facebook. I love threads. That's where I engage with people and that is part of my follow-up strategy. I know I should be on LinkedIn. I know that's where the entrepreneurs are. I just cannot with LinkedIn. I don't know why.

Speaker 2: 56:27

I find it so boring and just like bleh.

Speaker 3: 56:32

Yes, and every single connection you make, they pitch you a minute later. I hate it.

Speaker 2: 56:37

I just don't with LinkedIn. But Facebook and threads are definitely part of my follow-up strategy because I will follow people that I meet. I will engage with them thoughtfully. I'm not talking about like, just like their posts. That's not going to really do you any good. Or just like comment, great post. But, you know, actually thoughtfully engage with them once in a while.

Speaker 2: 57:02

And I'm not saying that you have to engage with these people daily, right, even once a month is fine. It's the consistency of it that is going to create that connection and build that connection. So there's a lot of different ways to do it. You don't have to have a coffee date with every single person that you meet at a networking event. You can follow up with them by email, you can follow up with them in a voice note, you can follow up with them on social media. Any of those things will work, even if, let's say, you met somebody last month at a networking event, you met five people that you think these are people I'd like to get to know a little better, and next month you find a new networking event that you're going to go to, email those five people and say I loved meeting you at such and such. I'm going to this one on Friday. It looks kind of cool. I've never been, but if you'd like to go, I'll see you there, right?

Speaker 2: 57:55

Oh, that's good, I like that Easy way to follow up with those people and also meet new people and I know I'm talking a lot, but this part is important.

Speaker 3: 58:04

This is good yeah.

Speaker 2: 58:13

People get really overwhelmed with follow up because they think they need to follow up with every single person they met or every single person on that roster. Every single person was at that event. You do not need to, nor should you, follow up with every single person that you met.

Speaker 2: 58:22

I want you to think of it as like the cake tasting, right? So you go to the cake tasting and you try the chocolate cake, the vanilla cake, the yellow cake. You try the yellow cake with the raspberry frosting, you try the yellow cake with the chocolate frosting, right? You try all the things and then you decide which of these cakes do I want to eat some more of? Until you get to the point that is like which of these cakes is the cake I want to eat on my wedding day?

Speaker 2: 58:52

I usually use an online dating analogy for this. I don't know why I went to wedding cake Because it makes me hungry. Online dating analogy for this. I don't know why I went to wedding cake because it makes me hungry. So I want you to think of it that way, right? So, and I think of it like the analogy I usually use is with my dating coaching clients. I would use a funnel, so like, if you're looking at the funnel from the top down, everybody outside is all the people on the online dating app. Yeah, everybody in the next level is like the people that you have swiped right on and they've also swiped right on you.

Speaker 3: 59:19

Right.

Speaker 2: 59:19

For those of you who have been married 26 years, that means you both liked each other.

Speaker 3: 59:25

Thank you for that clarification.

Speaker 2: 59:26

That means you get to send messages to each other, right? So now there's another category of people that you're messaging. There's another category of people that you maybe have a video chat with. There's a smaller category of people that you meet for ice cream right? Not everybody moves down the categories Right, you're narrowing it down.

Speaker 2: 59:44

People get left behind in the funnel and that's okay. I want your people to hear this especially. This does not make you a bad person. Yes, you do not have to follow up with all of the people. You do not have to have a second coffee date. You do not have to follow up with all of the people. You do not have to have a second coffee date. You do not have to have a second email with anyone.

Speaker 3: 1:00:03

Y'all, she's giving you a look. I just want you to know this. You may not see it, but she's giving you a look.

Speaker 2: 1:00:07

And it doesn't mean that you're not a nice person, right? It doesn't mean that you don't care. It doesn't mean everybody's going to think like, oh, I met her and she never talked to me again.

Speaker 3: 1:00:18

No, they don't even remember half the time, but the one or two that you like, that you connected with, they will be surprised that you remember them and will be touched by it. Yes, exactly.

Speaker 2: 1:00:31

So I just think, like at each stage you're thinking and you're using different criteria of like yeah, I liked this person enough. You know, I could see myself having another conversation with them. I could see us being valuable to each other's businesses or to each other's lives. I'll exchange a couple emails, I'll follow them on LinkedIn, I'll engage with them here, whatever it is right, and then there may be some point as there often is when social media is involved that you're like okay, nevermind, don't really think I want to follow up with that person again Not my people.

Speaker 2: 1:01:06

Or you know, you thought, oh, I'm really going to like Wendy, I'm going to have coffee with Wendy. We go and have coffee and I'm like I don't think I'll have coffee with Wendy again. Right, I'm the opposite, Clearly, I'm like I want to have coffee with Wendy again. Right, I'm the opposite. Clearly, I'm like I want to have coffee with Wendy all day, every day. But so just think of it like that too, as like you don't have to put your all into all of the people.

Speaker 3: 1:01:26

A hundred percent. You're also saying give yourself permission to weed people out and, and I'm thinking, pay attention to people, sort of on two levels. One I might need to know this person because it's just a good helpful contact to have. Like they have a skillset I might need sometime. Or I might have a client who could use what they offer and maybe we're not going to be besties but it's useful to know about them. So maybe I should follow up enough to get to know a little bit more about what they do. I'm not going to invite them to come watch a movie with me, right, and then there'll be other people that you meet that you just there's just something about them.

Speaker 3: 1:01:58

Like she had a nice smile we had. I just kind of liked her energy, she was just easy to talk to. I kind of want to know her a bit more and you have no idea why you just it's just that I would say follow that, listen to your intuition and you're saying so, be, be intentional and thoughtful and deliberate about how you process all of this and be kind to yourself. Hang out with, like go deeper with the people you want to go deeper with period.

Speaker 3: 1:02:24

And also the folks who could serve a serve a role in some point. Yeah, that's good, I like that. Yeah, yeah, that's really good. Yeah, there's a saying you know this in the business world of the fortune is in the follow-up. Yeah, so tell me, how do you get from you're a nice person, I want to know you better to something that does bring income or business? How do you? Because that's a line you have to cross at some point. That also people tend to get stuck at, I think.

Speaker 1: 1:02:56

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:02:56

Right. I can send you articles all day long, but at some point I'd kind of like to work with you, right, exactly.

Speaker 2: 1:03:03

Yeah. So I think the first thing to know is that it takes time and again, this is not a sexy thing for me to sell. Everybody else is like I can teach you to make six figures in five minutes following my five-step plan, and I'm like I can help you figure out your own way, and it'll take a really long time.

Speaker 3: 1:03:22

Yes, so true.

Speaker 2: 1:03:29

But I will say this is much more sustainable than the other. There is a definition from a long time ago, a definition of the word networking that is, a broadcast system of multiple transmitters, and obviously that related to like TV or radio or something like that. But I love that definition in terms of business networking, because that really is what makes it so much more sustainable than any other business growth method. Because if I've put in the time and the energy and the dedication to creating a relationship with you and I've got a message to send to my hundred people in my network, yeah, but you also have a hundred people in your network that you can send the message to, right? And so now I've got this broadcast system that's not just my own transmitter, I've got a bunch of transmitters that are transmitting it to their networks, yeah, so, and that just keeps multiplying exponentially until the end of time.

Speaker 2: 1:04:21

There's no other method of marketing or business growth that does that. So it is an investment. It does take time, but it is worth it. So I think of the analogy as every summer, I know marigolds or morning glories are supposed to come back every year. Mine don't, because they're planted above ground and it's Colorado and their roots freeze. But every year I plant morning glories from seed and if you've ever planted something from seed, you go out there and you water the dirt every day, and every day you're like I assume something's happening. I have no idea.

Speaker 2: 1:05:00

But you keep going out there and watering dirt and every day you're like I hope something actually happens. And then one day you go out there to water the dirt and there's a little tiny plant and you're like I think something might be happening, right. And by the end of summer you've got these beautiful morning glories. That is a lot like networking. You are watering dirt and you're hoping something happens, and eventually it does.

Speaker 3: 1:05:23

Let's water some dirt y'all.

Speaker 2: 1:05:25

But you have to water the dirt right, like you have to make it happen. You have to have planted the seed, you have to have the right soil, you have to water it the right amount of times, get it the right son, et cetera, et cetera. So there is that beginning stage where you are just getting to know the other person, they're getting to know you, you're deciding if you like each other, you're building trust with each other. Right? No, like and trust. We all go back to that and it's really true, because that's who we want to do business with.

Speaker 2: 1:05:52

and that's who we want to be friends with, so that does take time, as it should. We want to be friends with, so that does take time, as it should. And so you go through that period, and that happens in a lot of ways email we're having coffee, I'm inviting you to this thing, we're hanging out at this place, whatever it is, at some point, if you decide I actually want this person to be a referral partner for me, or or I might want them to be a client.

Speaker 2: 1:06:20

Yeah, or I actually want to collaborate with them on a project or something like that. Yeah, I think the way that you approach it again going back to the intention the way that you approach it is going to make the difference whether they are experiencing it as you being a human or you being a salesy weirdo. Right, if they like you and they've built trust with you, they're less likely to experience you as a salesy weirdo. If they've just met you and you're like hey, I would love for you to be a referral partner for me, they're like I barely know what you do. So, getting to that point and then just approaching it with a conversation like what is your intention and be clear about it you don't have to be weird about it, but just say, like you know, I've been thinking about doing a workshop on such and such and I just keep coming back to you and I think doing this workshop together would be so cool.

Speaker 2: 1:07:11

It'd be a way for me to get in front of your audience, you to get in front of my audience, and you have this expertise that I don't have. Would you be interested in talking about that more, right? Or we've been, you know, we've been getting to know each other for a long time. We've had conversations about this and this. I really think that's something that I could help you with Are you interested? In having like a consultation call with me.

Speaker 2: 1:07:34

And that's an important piece, too, is that this conversation and the consultation or the sales call are separate conversations.

Speaker 3: 1:07:42

That's good they are never the same conversation.

Speaker 2: 1:07:46

If I meet you at a networking event and you say, hey, I'd love to have a 30 minute Zoom, get to know you better. You better not sell to me on that 30 minute zoom, even if I'm saying all of the things, I'm like oh, wendy, I just moved into this leadership position and I have all these responsibilities and I'm so nervous and everything is screaming Wendy she's your ideal client.

Speaker 3: 1:08:08

You can help her Really, for real. Give me a call On that 30 minute call.

Speaker 2: 1:08:12

It's so true. What you can say to me is I work with women exactly like you all the time. I know I could help you. If you want to set up a consult, call anytime, I'm here, right. Separate conversations.

Speaker 3: 1:08:28

I love that, because you are being clear about who you are and what you can do to help. This is again. This is selling a service which is important to me, but you are asking them for permission. You're asking them to opt in, or giving them the choice to opt in to that conversation, which is much more respectful and much more empowering and much cleaner.

Speaker 2: 1:08:48

So that's good. That's how this is not transactional.

Speaker 2: 1:08:51

I love that, yeah, and that's why we're keeping those conversations as completely separate calls and we are giving the person the option to consent to having that call, right, yeah, yeah, so um and same with being somebody becoming somebody's referral partner. You're thinking like man you got. We work with very similar people in very different ways. I would love to be able to send my people to you. I would love for you to send people to me if they meet this, this and this criteria. Would you be open to having a conversation about that Right, because there are certain conversations we need to have that we probably haven't had yet in order to become good referral partners for each other. Who do you want me to send them to? How do you want me to send them to you? What should I, what can I tell them to expect? You know all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 3: 1:09:36

Those are great questions. I love that.

Speaker 2: 1:09:38

Yes, yeah, but again making it a separate conversation and asking them are you open to having a conversation about that sometime, not just jumping? This is when we become weirdos and this is when people are like I hate networking, right, because I thought I just showed up to have coffee with you and now you're like I want to be your referral partner. What do you think about that?

Speaker 3: 1:09:57

And I'm like I wish I would never come to this coffee.

Speaker 2: 1:10:01

That's what I think about that.

Speaker 3: 1:10:02

I used to have a coach that would say you don't take somebody out to lunch and go, so you want to get married.

Speaker 3: 1:10:07

You know, you don't go from one to like you've got to build it slowly, but I like what you're saying. This is really good advice to separate those conversations and it also this might relieve a little pressure for people, because I think for some of you guys who are listening, some of you may feel like you're supposed to find a way to get the conversation at that point. You're supposed to be nice and say all the right things, but get yourself to the point where you're asking for the business. What Melissa is doing is giving you an in-between step here. Build the relationship first and then don't avoid the topic. But when the timing is right, say if you would like to. I'd love to have. Would you be open to a conversation? Whatever, it's fair, it's clean, it's respectful, it's built over time. That's great and that should feel good to you.

Speaker 3: 1:10:59

The thing that I want to challenge you all about is that this is the part you won't get to of offering to work with people. That's the part you will avoid, and I know that from personal experience because I used to avoid it. So you do need to get there, but it's not a full court press. It's an invitation when the time is right, and it's done in a very special way. I love that, melissa. That's really good advice. That's great.

Speaker 2: 1:11:22

Yeah, yeah, and that's a great point that you make too, because a lot of people I see, sometimes people who teach networking say networking is really just making friends. No, it isn't. We are not here to make friends. I mean, we will make friends and it'll be great, and there will be people that we have coffee to that we never get to that conversation with because we just want to be friends with them, and that's fabulous, right, but that's the cherry on top. That's not why we came. And so if you are approaching networking as this is just friendship, we're all just making friends. That's why it's not getting you a result in your business. You have to get to that point of okay, how can we work together to benefit each other, to support each other, to make this something that is beneficial for both of our businesses? You have to have that conversation. You have to have that.

Speaker 1: 1:12:11

Good, and if you're doing it in?

Speaker 2: 1:12:13

this way, where you're approaching it from a very like clean space, you're separating the conversations and you are inviting them to the conversation and giving them permission to not have the conversation.

Speaker 3: 1:12:26

Then it shouldn't be scary, right, right, and you know what I think. One last point I want to make about this is this is showing up as a leader. This is what it means to be a leader in your business, which is something y'all know I harp on sometime, like your up as a leader. This is what it means to be a leader in your business, which is something y'all know I harp on sometime Like. Your job as a business owner is to lead the conversation and to ask for the business in the way that Melissa is teaching you today. But this goes back to the imposter syndrome when you walk into the room with this sort of shrinking shoulders down, head down, trying to avoid looking at anybody, pulling your phone out all the time. Put the dang phone away. Make yourself, make eye contact.

Speaker 2: 1:13:05

No, she's giving you a look. Yeah, I'm giving you a look. Put the phone down.

Speaker 3: 1:13:10

Put the phone down and go make a connection with somebody who could use a friendly face in that moment. But lead. I really. Really this is a thing for me because I'm so. I'm a little irritated, honestly, at the sort of milquetoast energy that I see from people. I'm like we, your clients, your potential clients, need you to lead, show up and show me that you got something right. So go into it with the confidence that you deserve to have with someone who has this ridiculous amount of experience training life. You bring so much to the table, so show up and lead and ask for that business in exactly the way Melissa's teaching you. This is so good, so good. I get a little bit on a soapbox because I'm kind of this is sort of a thing for me lately. It's like I'm probably gonna do a whole episode on this because I'm super conscious of it lately.

Speaker 2: 1:14:05

Yeah it's great. Yeah, show up, show up and don't be hesitant, Be confident go yeah, and you don't have to wait for someone else to be like, hey, I'm interested in your services or, you know, I might want to refer somebody to you. Like, you can take the initiative and you should.

Speaker 3: 1:14:25

Yeah, One of the sort of sideways ways I used to in the very beginning when I was terrified of everything. When I first started my practice, I was making myself go to these like professional group things in the neighboring town where I live. It's a bigger city. I live in a small town, 30,000 people, but there's a 600,000. I live outside of Knoxville, Tennessee. I would go to things over there and over there it's across the river, we call that over there and I would say, if you need anybody in Blount County, keep me in mind, I'm over there. Which was a way of kind of like a soft sell, Like keep me in mind over here. That did work. Something as simple If you need anybody who's looking for help with their kids, keep me in mind. If you need anybody who's looking for help with their dating life, keep me in mind. Like that alone is something, yeah, but you can do better. That was sort of my wimpy start. You can do better.

Speaker 2: 1:15:22

Yeah, it's a great start. A wimpy start is better than a good start.

Speaker 3: 1:15:27

Melissa, this has been so good. I've made a list of like all these tips. It really kind of flows into like, oh, do this, do this, do this. It's really great. Kind of flows into like, oh, do this, do this, do this. It's really great. You have reinforced some things that I want people to hear. You've thrown out some new stuff I have not thought of before. Brilliant, it's been so good. Let's start. Let's do this. Tell people about your community and about your networking things, because that could be a great place for them to practice. Yeah, yeah absolutely so.

Speaker 2: 1:15:58

I run a monthly virtual speed networking event that's open to everyone. It is the first Tuesday of every month from 11 to 12 mountain time, and you can get tickets on my website it's powerfulwomenrisingcom, and I really these events are so fun. We have women from all over the world. We usually have somewhere between 60 and 80 women on these calls. There is structure, so you do get put in breakout rooms, you do get a topic to talk about, but it's not like those virtual events.

Speaker 2: 1:16:27

You've been to where, like I went to one and I was so impressed because this woman had like 300 people on her virtual and I was like, wow, what is she doing? I get put in my first breakout room with like six other women. Five of them have their cameras off and none of them are talking. Oh, that's awful. And so I get in there. I'm like hi, and no one responds and I'm like okay, so I sit for a little bit and then I go back to the main room. I tell her nobody had their cameras on, no one was talking. She's like oh gosh, so sorry. She puts me in another breakout room. Same thing. I'm like okay, I'm out For real.

Speaker 2: 1:17:03

This is not going to happen at the Powerful Women Rising Virtual Speed Networking event. We have the most awesome women who come to that event. They are amazing and I always have people who say I hated networking before. I never thought I would say networking was fun. I was so nervous to come and people always love it. So if that's you, you want to connect with the people, you want to practice talking about what you do, introducing yourself, making connections in a space that is very safe and judgment-free. Love to have you on the virtual speed networking event. You actually can attend your first one at no cost if you use the promo code FIRSTTIME. Oh, I love that.

Speaker 3: 1:17:43

Tickets are only $10, but you can also come to your first one with the promo code of four stars. Oh my Lord, y'all pay the $10.

Speaker 2: 1:17:49

Just pay the $10.

Speaker 3: 1:17:50

Support a sister Pay $10.

Speaker 2: 1:17:52

I like the promo code because it takes away your excuse, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, paying $10 might be terrible. And then I also run, as I mentioned, the Powerful Women Rising community, which is an online community for female entrepreneurs. It's really just about women supporting women. We have amazing mastermind calls where you can bring any topic, challenge, mindset, issue, something you want feedback on, something that you're working on or you're confused about, and we have women in the community in all different industries, all different experience levels. You can get input from them, get ideas, get new perspectives. There's opportunities to get business coaching from me. We do coworking calls, we do networking calls where you really get to know each other on a deeper level, really understand each other's business, who each other's best referral partners are, how to make that referral. So it's a lot about learning to a lot of these things that we talked about today, just learning to be better at networking and do it in a way that feels good to you.

Speaker 3: 1:18:53

Yeah, that's so good and you can I mean, it's easy for anyone listening to this to tell what it would be like to work with you and what it would be like to be in any of these groups that you're running, because you're so warm and welcoming and you have a great sense of humor.

Speaker 3: 1:19:09

You have a great sense of humor, which makes it easier, actually makes it easier, and y'all the fact that she gives you a topic to talk about. You know that means you don't have to go thinking what do I say? It will come to you. So just trust yourself, it'll be fine. That's a great little little thing. It's like those card decks you put on your family table, that dining table, so you have something to talk about at dinner, right, same idea.

Speaker 3: 1:19:30

I've done that at conferences. I used to run a. I've run a couple of conferences over the years and I used to put. One of the things I did at some of them was to put a question under their plate that they didn't know was there. And at some point I would say, turn over your plate. Before they had food, of course. Turn over your plate and then turn to your person on your left and right and talk about whatever that topic was. You know something like that oh.

Speaker 1: 1:19:51

I love that, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:19:53

This has been so good. Thank you so much. I might check out your networking thing myself because you know it's hard to get out there.

Speaker 1: 1:20:00

Yeah, so that's really lovely.

Speaker 3: 1:20:01

Yeah, one of the things I like to do. We will put all of that in the show notes below. I'm also going to look up that book that you mentioned by Pollard. I'm going to try to find that, and so we'll make it y'all really easy to find her.

Speaker 2: 1:20:17

You also have a podcast.

Speaker 3: 1:20:18

I do Yep Also called powerful woman rising.

Speaker 2: 1:20:19

So if you just remember powerful woman rising, you can't there's a theme you can't miss it yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:20:23

So we'll. We'll have all that down below. This really has been helpful and fun and thank you so much. I knew it would be. I think where I always like to wrap up with folks is to ask you is there anything that I haven't asked you, anything we haven't talked about, or anything that you just feel called to share that you feel like would make this conversation complete?

Speaker 2: 1:20:50

Oh, that's a great question. You know I touched on it a little bit, but my intuition tells me to say it again, so I'm going to say it again. You do not have to build your business the way that everyone else says you have to build your business. You do not have to follow the expert blueprint, the cookie cutter, the 12-step plan. It works for some people. It doesn't work for other people, right? Part of what we miss is like yeah, susie followed this 10-step plan and she made six figures. But she also had a huge network 10,000 people on her mailing list and a degree in marketing before that right, she didn't tell us any of that.

Speaker 2: 1:21:27

She just said, I followed this 10-step plan and made six figures. So find the way. And I feel like I said I feel so strongly about this because I spent so much time trying to force myself to do it a different way, trying to force myself to be somebody different and get up early and you know, have have be who I thought I needed to be in order to there's the fluffy tail again. Be who I thought I needed to be in order to be taken seriously, in order to be seen as an expert, in order to be successful in business. And once I started, really just like leaning into who I was and what my strengths were and working with myself rather than against myself that's when business happened, and it happened much more easily, because it was more in alignment with who you are, which always works so much better.

Speaker 3: 1:22:21

You are 100% right. This is what I mean by ideal practice. An ideal practice for one person is going to be very different than what it is for somebody else, and when you are working against yourself, it's always going to be hard. You may still get there, but you will wear yourself out along the way. But when you do what you're saying, melissa, and just like good lord, honor your energy and honor what's natural for you, learn strategies, try things, don't be afraid to put yourself into something that's a little scary, because sometimes you'll figure out new things that you didn't even know you liked and knew you could do. But but always, always, always, always, honor your way and what feels right for you, cause that's the only thing that's ever really going to work. So love it, that's ideal. That's love it, it's perfect. Thank you so much, so much. What a great way to end. I am always, always, thrilled with the answers people come up with for that question, cause it's always, just always, just perfect, and that was no exception. Okay, good, thank you. All right, everybody. Thank you for hanging out with us today.

Speaker 3: 1:23:26

I think we have given you quite a bit to chew on. I hope this might be the kind of episode you want to go back and listen to and take notes, honestly, because there have been lots of little bits in here that you can literally implement today. Oh, you know what I didn't ask you, melissa? I'm sorry y'all, I don't need you to do this at the end, but it's an important question when do people find networking events to go to Other than the things we talked about already, about volunteering or finding things you're interested in? Like, literally, how do you find things to go to? Do you have any like two or three specific places to look?

Speaker 2: 1:24:03

Yeah, I mean you can Google it. If you're looking for something in person in your area, google, of course, is a great reference, I also. You can find stuff on Meetup. You can find stuff on Eventbrite. Many of the new people who come to the Virtual Speed Networking event come from Eventbrite, so those are all really good resources too.

Speaker 3: 1:24:16

Oh, that's good. I hadn't thought about Eventbrite. I wanted to ask you that because that's also like OK, you've convinced me. Where do I start? Yeah, ok, all right, y'all.

Speaker 1: 1:24:27

Now I'm going to quit. That's a wrap on this week's episode of Powerful Women Rising. Thanks for hanging out with us. If you love the podcast, make sure to subscribe, share it with a friend, write a review or buy us a coffee. Your support helps more women like you step into their power and grow their businesses in a way that feels real and true to them. Want to keep the party going. Check out the show notes for details on our next virtual speed networking event, or join us in the powerful Women Rising community. Until next time, remember that building a business your way is the best way.