Powerful Women Rising - A Business Podcast for Female Entrepreneurs

Marketing vs. Sales: What You’re Missing That’s Costing You Clients w/Tam Smith

• Melissa Snow - Powerful Women Rising, LLC • Episode 117

Share episode

Send us a text

You’re marketing your face off… but where are the sales?

In this episode, Sales Growth Strategist Tam Smith joins me for a much-needed conversation about the missing piece in so many entrepreneurs’ businesses: actual sales strategy.

Tam breaks down why visibility alone doesn’t lead to revenue and how so many entrepreneurs confuse consistent content with selling - when in reality, they’re just warming people up with no next step.

We talk about how to shift your mindset from “I hate selling” to “sales is service,” and how to make simple, intentional moves that create momentum without sleazy pitches or high-pressure tactics.

In this episode, we cover:

  • Why your marketing efforts might not be converting and how to fix it using Tam's 3-2-2 method for simple, non-sleazy daily sales activity
  • The difference between building awareness and actually inviting people to work with you
  • The 90-day rule for sales results (and why you're probably giving up too soon)

If you’ve ever said, “I’m doing all the things but no one is buying,” this episode is your roadmap to doing fewer things better - with more intention and more sales.

Links & References:

Support the show

Connect with Your Host!

Melissa Snow is a Business Relationship Strategist dedicated to empowering women in entrepreneurship. She founded the Powerful Women Rising Community, which provides female business owners with essential support and resources for business growth.

Melissa's other mission is to revolutionize networking, promoting authenticity and genuine connections over sleazy sales tactics. She runs an incredible monthly Virtual Speed Networking Event which you can attend once at no cost using the code FIRSTTIME

She lives in Colorado Springs with two dogs, her soul cat Giorgio and any number of foster kittens. She loves iced coffee, Taylor Swift, and Threads.

SPEAKER_01:

Hello, Tam. Welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_00:

Hey, thanks so much for having me. It's great to be here.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so excited for our chat today about sales and marketing and all of the things in between. Before we dive in, tell everybody just a little bit about you and about what you do.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, absolutely. I'm Tam Smith. I am a sales growth strategist and the founder of Studio 349 Sales Marketing. And I help female founders, female agency owners, service-based founders find, connect with, and convert right fit clients through what I like to call scalable, sustainable sales systems.

SPEAKER_01:

Awesome. And how long have you been doing this work?

SPEAKER_00:

I have been doing sales and business development my whole career, 15 plus years. My entrepreneurial experience started. I'm the product of COVID. I would love to believe that it did not take what at that time was a family health crisis independent of COVID, a global pandemic, for me to start a business, but that's how it happened. Actually, started the business as a virtual assistant. You know, needed something that wasn't location specific. And in my corporate career, my uh business card has said everything from administrative assistant all the way up to director of residential sales when I exited uh the end of 2019. Uh so started the business as a virtual assistant. Um, the climate we were in during COVID, uh, businesses that either didn't have or had not been paying attention to their online presence were, you know, freaking out. Uh, you know, what are we going to do? And with my background largely in, you know, sales marketing and business development, that's much of the work I was getting. So 2022, uh, I rebranded, well, I should say I did a formal launch and upgraded from something beyond the you know the DIY website I did over a weekend when I launched the business and uh launched to focus just exclusively on digital marketing. And uh about a year ago, um, I total transparency, I was on the fast track to burnout. Um, I had said yes to everything. Uh, and from the outside in, you know, it probably, you know, looked, oh, you know, TAM's, you know, running a you know, successful business. On the inside, it felt like I was doing a really poor job at a lot of stuff. Um, and I was had started working with a business coach, uh, which I highly recommend to anyone listening because it's really hard to read the label from inside the bottle. And uh in our early engagement working together, she was the one um that actually said, you know, unless you're really committed to trying to build out this marketing agency, it sounds like you really want to be doing something in sales and business development. And I started laughing and I said, Well, I can find the business if I could just free myself up to find the business. And she was the one that said, Well, damn, that's a business. So it really, you know, it's um that thing that, you know, we tend to dismiss the thing that comes uh, I guess, with some ease and flow. You know, I'm still, I guess, kind of working myself out of the idea that success equals suffering, um, and that has to be hard to have value. Uh, so, you know, a year in, I'm now focused exclusively on uh the sales and business like creating opportunity, if you will, and helping other people do that too.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's awesome. This is such a timely conversation. We I just came from the mastermind call in the Powerful Women Rising community. And one of the things we were talking about, we were laughing because half the time our members will show up with something that they want help with. And about five to 10 minutes into it, they're like, okay, never mind. I'm not even doing that anymore. You know, they'll come like, I needed LinkedIn strategy, and we start talking about it. And five minutes in, they're like, Okay, actually, I don't know why I thought I needed to be on LinkedIn. Never mind. We were just talking to somebody who she had celebrated at the beginning that she'd created a custom GPT to help people with their SOPs, and it was really cool and blah, blah, blah. And so what she wanted help with in the mastermind was I have these three webinar ideas to you do this webinar as a lead magnet. And which of these three do you think is the best lead magnet? And blah, blah, blah. And finally, somebody was like, Why aren't you just using your custom GPT as a lead magnet? And she was like, That's a great question. Like, why are why do we overcomplicate so much? It's crazy. Okay, so one of the reasons that I wanted to have you on the podcast, I knew that you and I were very aligned with a lot of things. And the way that you talk about marketing is you talk about building the room or you talk about sales as like starting the conversation. And I just love that so much because that's one of the things that I say to the women in the powerful woman rights in community a lot too, when they're like, I'm just bad at sales. I'm like, let's talk about every moment in your life that you actually are really good at sales, right? Like when your husband comes home and you guys are planning on having leftovers for dinner, but you really, really want Chinese. Like that's sales, right? But really, all it is is you having a conversation with him. And it doesn't have to be manipulative. It doesn't have to be like, I've already figured out what his objections are going to be to ordering Chinese and I'm ready to overcome his objections. Like, it's not all of this stuff, it's just a conversation. So talk to us a little bit about the relationship between marketing and sales, how they're different, and what you mean when you talk about building the room versus starting the conversation.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep, absolutely. Um, you know, I the question I like to ask to you know your audience and to the people I work with, you know, if referral your referrals drought up tomorrow, uh, would you still, you know, have leads coming in, you know, 30 days from now? And referrals are great. Like it's just the, I mean, it means you've got something proven. You know, it's working, uh, you're doing the thing. Uh the challenge with that is it's not predictable. You know, you're you're kind of stuck waiting. Um, and it's definitely not scalable. Um, so when we look at, you know, sales and marketing, um, it's not an either-or. You know, I like to to think of them when you're working in partnership. Uh marketing helps you get seen and remembered and understood. Sales turns that attention into opportunity. Um, and you know, I'll just like share my own story. You know, I've definitely struggled early in my sales career with what I think, you know, as female business owners, female founders, we we we've been, we've been the recipient of some bad sales conversations. You know, we've been on the receiving end of, you know, what the traditional association with sales, where it's that, you know, pushy, manipulative, very transactional, very forced. Um, and you know, where do we just don't relate to that? You know, we we we don't want to uh we don't want to be the recipient of that. And we definitely, you know, don't want to be the one serving that up to someone that we want to work with. And so we don't do it. Um, and early in my career, you know, I was coming, my mindset around the term sales was that's what I associated with. And I thought I was a quote unquote bad salesperson because I didn't relate to that. That's not, I was very focused on how can I serve and solve. And I, you know, it took someone actually gave me the book, and I highly recommend it. It's a great read, which really I felt validated, I felt seen, but it's go givers sell more. And it was the, I don't know if you've if you've read it or familiar with it, but um great read. And I felt like I said, I read it and I just wanted to like like shout from the rooftops. I someone sees me, I feel heard because it at the end of the day, we're um the mindset you approach it with, you know, it changes everything. And it's like, how can I serve and solve? And if you've got you know a service or a solution that can help someone achieve a goal or solve a problem, you know, I'm of the opinion that, you know, we have a responsibility to share that. And we're not trying to sell anything, you know, we're simply trying to, you know, educate that uh individual on making the best decision for them. So um I heard it said that we're not salespeople, we're the um uh the chief, I think it's the decision makers, decision maker helpers, if you will. You know, we're just helping someone make a decision. But a very long answer to your question, I feel like we get stuck in the either or. Um, you know, marketing, we're very, you know, comfortable with uh posting, you know, the being being visible and then it stops. And you know, the sales end of it were resistant because we don't want to be perceived as a you know, as a gross, sleazy salesperson. Um, but they're really intended to work together. And I have um having worked on both sides of it, you know, having worked deeply on the marketing side of it, um I know uh I knew how valuable having that consistent visible presence is in the uh climate that we're in today. I knew how valuable that was, but it really wasn't until I got now within this last year, you know, focused on the sales end of things, like how important it is to have both to work together. Uh marketing, um you're left waiting, you know, for that inbound inquiry, which if you do it well, you're gonna get. But I'm a huge advocate of you know, being able to, while you're waiting, be able to proactively initiate and start those conversations so you can create your own opportunity. And it's a it's a whole kind of environment ecosystem, if you will, that it's really intended to support each other. Yeah. Again, very long answer to your question. Well, it was a very long question, so it's okay.

SPEAKER_01:

I love the distinction you're making, though, between marketing and sales, because I I think we think of them, I hear people talk a lot about them together, right? I do marketing and sales. I do sales and marketing, sales and marketing, marketing and sales. And there are people who, you know, specialize in helping people with one or the other, but I think so often for like the average business owner, marketing and sales are the same thing, right? And so I what I see a lot in the women that I work with is they're all over the marketing, right? They're posting on social media, they're emailing their list, they're providing value, they're going to networking events and connecting with people and they're doing all of this stuff to increase their visibility, to bring people into their audience. They're doing great, but then they're like, why am I not making any money? Right. And I think it's because they're missing that distinction between marketing and sales. They think because they are marketing, the sales should be coming automatically. So for those people who are listening to this that are like, yes, that's 100% what I'm doing. How do you suggest they start bringing more sales in?

SPEAKER_00:

I wish I had the silver bullet. And the silver bullet is there's no silver bullet. It's just a practice. It is just a daily discipline and practice and simply building that into your daily, weekly routine. Uh, and it I'll let me back up and say I kind of think of it in three phases. Um, a lot of the women that I work with, they're coming to me at kind of one of two inflection points. You know, they've, again, they've they've built a solid business based on referral, but one of two things has happened. They've had a, you know, a large client has moved off and they they don't have anything in place to fill that, or they're at that stage where, hey, you know, they're ready to to grow and scale and move to that next level. And again, there's no process. So again, I wish that could there was something I could say that, you know, you insert this in and it's going to be like, you know, a double digit increase overnight, but it really is just the micro daily micro actions that you take to move that needle. But I set that up to say a lot of us when we've started our businesses, we've um, and I think, you know, to a certain degree early stage, you have to, we've said yes to everything. And to be able to, you know, proactively initiate and start a conversation. I'm not, you know, I know everybody gets really nervous when they hear the idea of someone advocating they need to niche down or get focused. But for the purposes of initiating and starting conversation and being able to proactively uh um initiate business growth, for that messaging, just think of, you know, and ask your eye, think of that that one client or that one project that you did. That if, and I'm not saying this is all you're ever going to do for the rest of your business, but if that's all you did, who is that? You know, what is that work? And get really, really focused on the profile of who that that client is and the problem you're solving, that you can go start more of those same conversations. And then once you've done that, it really is just there's so many tools like pick your where where's the sandbox? Where are they playing? And then it it really goes back, like you're the way you advocate, you know, uh business building with you know, it's just making connections and starting conversations and building relationships to create opportunity. And that doesn't happen overnight, it's just a daily micro action. So, you know, once you've got that, you know, profile of that, you know, again, that one person that you want to start a conversation with, find out where they're playing and get in the room and then just be able to say, like, I I heard this is not an original quote, but I'm gonna steal it. That uh, you know, sales really is like half the world is waiting for the other half, or the half of the room is waiting for the other room to say hi. Just be the first to say hello in a way that feels natural uh and comfortable to you. Um so yeah, once you've kind of validated that audience pro or that that client profile, you know, you're able to work that into your messaging and the marketing things that you're using to support your business. Um and it hopefully that will drive some more of those inbound conversations. But in the meantime, being able to day on in the daily just practically initiate those conversations. I I practice what I call like a 322 method, if you will. Um, and this is what I found when I talk about, you know, sustainable practice. Where your chosen platform is, wherever your client is is living and playing, or prospective client is living and playing, that could be you know, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, whatever that platform is, it's like where can you contribute to the conversation and drop three comments on your ideal client's content that they're posting and just engage in the conversation? And then two proactive outreach messages: one to someone new that you want to start a relationship with, and then someone else that's already in your network that could be a past client, a referral partner, potential collaborator that you're just staying visible but proactively uh start again, building that relationship and nurturing. And I that's where mindset comes in too. Uh, because a lot of people, well, I'll I'll even use again myself as an example. Early in my sales career, I can remember my first like full commission sales job. And I was fortunate to be sitting between the two of the highest performing sales women in the company. And white nut, I was just, you know, white knuckling how am I gonna make, you know, make my forecast this month. And uh my the one Nancy GD sitting next to me, shout out to Nancy GD. She said, Tam, you know, you got you gotta let go of the focus on the number because when you get focused on the number, you push it further away. When you focus on the client in front of you, and the this you're doing all the right things. Plan to work, work to plan, and the numbers will come. So I think that again, that mindset you start those conversations, don't go into it with that trying to close a deal. You know, one of sure it may end up being a client, or it could be a great referral partner, collaborator, or just like a really smart conversation that points you to the next right thing to do in your business to grow.

SPEAKER_01:

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think again, we try to overcomplicate things, right? And so we think if I'm gonna make sales, if I'm gonna turn my marketing into sales, then I need this big complicated funnel. I need, you know, some sort of, we were just talking about tripwires on the mastermind. And everybody was like, Where did that phrase even come from? I'm like, I don't know. Just like, you know, when somebody gets your free thing and you're like, oh, if you love my free thing, you could also add this thing for seven dollars, you know. Like, so I need a freebie and then I need a tripwire, and then I need an email sequence to funnel those people through. And then after that, I need them to go here and do this. And I can't do that unless I have the sales page set up. And when I set up my sales page, I'm gonna need somewhere for them to go to do this, this, and this. And we wait until we have all of those 50 million things, then we can start selling, right? But actually, and this is one of the reasons I started this business, is to get people to realize like, I feel like so often we're doing things backwards. We build the, we get the pictures taken, we build the website, we get the logo, we do all of the things, right? And then, because we think we need all those things to start selling. What you really need to start selling is to know who you're selling to, what their problem is, how you're gonna solve their problem, and then start having conversations with people.

unknown:

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00:

That's it. Everything you're describing, we spend way too much time setting the table. We just need to sit down and start eating.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, yes. And once you have those conversations, right, once you're starting to do those things, that's when you're gonna start bringing money in. And then you can use that money to put the frosting on the cake, right? Like we want to get the frosting first and learn how to make. I I have the weirdest metaphors, so we're just gonna go with it. We want the frosting first and we want to learn how to make the like icing flowers and all of the fancy icing things, right? And we do all those, and then we're like, well, shit, I don't have a cake to put this on. But and we like to do that because that's the sexy part, right? Like, that's the part that everybody sees that's like, oh, look at her. She's like a real businesswoman. She's her, she's got icing, she knows how to make flowers, she knows how to do all these things, and that makes our imposter syndrome feel good. It makes us feel good because now everybody else is looking at us and like, oh, she's legit, she knows how to make frosting flowers. But then we realize like those frosting flowers are not on a cake. We don't even have a cake. So we start backwards, we do the non-sexy part of baking a cake, and then at least we have something to live off of while we learn how to make frosting flowers.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and and I will say metaphor, sort of.

SPEAKER_01:

I I like that. I followed it.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm I'm with you. Thank you. I'll say statistically speaking, it takes about 90 days. Like what you are doing now is gonna show up 90 days from now. So don't delay. Like if you're listening to this and there's like one one action item you could take from this, is identify, you know, two people today or tomorrow, you know, one new connection that you know, and it necessarily be like just someone you admire that's doing something, you know, interesting that is, you know, you've gotten some benefit out of in your business, that you just want to, what is it? The you know you're the sum of the the six people you you surround yourself with. So, you know, expanding your network to someone you want to know and then look at your existing network, you know, like I said, past client uh that you haven't reached out to in a while, uh, you know, referral partner, collaborator, or just you know, someone in your a connection that's already in your network just to reach out and get in touch with um is what you are doing today is gonna show up 90 days from now. So every day you delay it just pushes that next, that next client out, you know, about 90 days further.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, a hundred percent. And I think too, you know, we talk a lot about on this podcast about how to not be a salesy weirdo. And I think sometimes people think if I'm reaching out to someone new or I'm reaching out to somebody I haven't had a conversation with in a while, I'm gonna come across as a salesy weirdo. And I think the biggest distinguisher of that is like what is your intention in reaching out to them, right? Because if I've never met you before, or I just like met you at this one networking event and I'm like, hey, Tam, great to see you at this networking event. I would love to do a 30-minute, I don't know what I do. I'll just make something up. I would love to provide you, I would love to offer you a 30-minute website audit and give you my thoughts on your website, right? Just I just want to do this, you know, just to connect with you and just to be nice and it'd be really great, right? Like, okay, salesy weirdo, because unless you were born yesterday, we know you're not just doing a website audit out of the goodness of your heart, right? Like, thank you. And also no. And if you're reaching out to somebody like a former client or something like that, you're not reaching out to them to say, like, hey, you haven't given me any money in the last six months. Are you interested in giving me some money now?

unknown:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

But both of those, that's the pitch slap, which that's I'm on a mission to end that. That's exactly what you don't want to do.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. So how do we want to start those conversations?

SPEAKER_00:

It takes, I mean, 30 seconds. I mean, with their tools and resources that we have at our disposal today to, you know, I mean, you look at someone's social feed, you know, Google search to see if they have any news, press announcements. You know, people just want to feel seen and supported and know that they matter and they're valuable and it's about, you know, them and not you. And from a genuine way, like you can always extend, you know, recognition to someone, you know, for something they've accomplished in their business. You can always say thank you. You can always offer a valuable resource that can support them in their business and the next move that you know may or may not include you. But you're so right. It's the mindset and the intention. And to go at it from a place of genuine, like goes back to that, you know, I my whole mantra of sales is an act of service. It's about what you give, not what you get. And when you serve well, the ROI always follows. And I have yet to find that not to be true. So from the intention of, it's like, you know, you give a gift, it's not with the expectation you're gonna get get anything back. So really doing it from that intention of uh just a genuine intention to support and serve and and be of be of value. And when you do that, it it just it comes back. I have repeated myself, but I have yet to see that knot come back on itself. And I will point out it may not to get all woo, but you know, it may not be from that person or individual, but it'll be something out of left field that you didn't even expect. But it's the momentum, you know, that you put out there that it comes back to you in more ways than you can imagine. Yeah, I totally agree.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Okay, so we need to wrap up pretty soon. I this is, I mean, sales and marketing is such a huge topic. We could go on forever. But this is my last question for you. If somebody is listening to this and they're like, this all sounds great, um, but I hate sales, I'm bad at marketing, and uh I but also I'm not a billionaire, so I won't be hiring someone else to do my sales and marketing. Where can they start today? Like, is there a mindset shift? Is there like you mentioned, you know, reaching out to a couple different people and just starting conversations? What do you recommend for the people who are listening who are feeling like that?

SPEAKER_00:

I I hear you, I've been you. And and depending on the day, I'm st I still am you. Uh and it I'm this is kind of my hot take. I don't believe that there is any, there's a such a thing as a sales expert. There are, you know, there's a lot of people out there that have lots and lots of practice. Uh, and that's that's all they're just more practice than you. And you know, pick and also, you know, we're overwhelmed at the messaging that we have to do every be everywhere and do everything. And yes, all of those things work, but what what's gonna is the thing that you can show up and do uh consistently. So start small, you know, pick one one thing that and uh that feels true to you that and your your business and the client that you're serving and start there. And I can't say that there's not gonna be um, you know, it like starting anything new, you know. I hate to use, you know, in an exercise metaphor, any, any new, you know, anything new you've taken on, there's always gonna be some level of discomfort. And and I I feel it, you know, any any in my own business, you know, I mean, I still like any I've had uh you know career sales and I still get anxiety before sales conversations. Um, but it's just with practice and repetition, it does get easier. So I'd say just start small uh and pick one thing and what that you can do repeatedly and pour gas on it. Love that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Okay. So if people are listening, they're loving you because why wouldn't they? They want to know more about what you do, how you might be able to help them, whatever you got going on. What are some good ways for them to connect with you?

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. Um, you can find me uh LinkedIn and the Sales and Service Podcast is where I'm I'm hanging out most of the time. Uh, you can also find me on my website, studio349.com. Uh, and I invite, again, talking about daily practices that can uh make, you know, kind of give you a starting point and give you some, you know, daily practices you can implement in your own business. Uh, go to studio349.com slash freebies and download the VIP power hour. And that'll give you some practical, like daily disciplines that you can start to work in and proactively generate more leads and business opportunities for your business. Awesome. That's brilliant.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, I will put the links for all of those in the show notes so people can click on those and connect with you. Thank you so much for being a guest. It was great chatting with you. I knew we were gonna love each other and have a million things to talk about, and we did.

SPEAKER_00:

So thank thank you so much for the invitation. Like I told you, I I I'm a fangirl and I've gotten so much, you know, out of your, you know, podcasting content and uh to be able to be a guest on here. I just um it's a it's a compliment and I'm glad to be here. Awesome. Thank you. I'm so glad to have you. Awesome.

Contributor

Melissa Snow

Host